Shattered Kingdoms

When I talk to stable rpers that have left on why they won't come back, this heavy handed punishment, is often cited as the main reason. I understand the need for a constant referee for the game but why so strict? Why no leeway? We aren't making money off this and at this point we are an extended dnd group and no one likes a harsh dm. With only about 30+/- of us actively playing now on a regular basis, I think we could use more open discussion about punishments that drive away players. We need to find a good balance that ensures fun for all, cause that is why I am here, what about everyone else?

I think the answer to "why no leeway" in the case of triggers is pretty clear: The punishment is listed right there in the helpfile. I'm not sure if you remember, but the primary complaint of the playerbase -before- the RM position was "why is there so much leeway for some people as opposed to others?" Granted, many players still complain about the same thing, but at least not in the case of triggers.

Maybe it would be nice to dial back on the scripting punishment, but I think the primary reason it is so harsh is that players and/or staff are bound to disagree on what a "bad" trigger is, and a bad trigger can be inordinately effective to the point where it's potentially "worth" some of the punishments you'd incur. Dulrik's always shied on the side of having the punishment always be much greater than any potential reward to the crime, maybe to emphasize that when you're considering breaking the rules, you shouldn't ever find yourself tempted to do so because the punishment isn't that bad.

I mean... just don't trigger. It's not that hard. It's probably the rule that requires the least effort to follow.

I don't care about my deletion as much as I care about how it went down. I was told, verbatim, don't bother arguing your case to me because I don't care. Also, you can email Dulrik a log to appeal, but don't bother doing that either because he won't do anything. Now, that's all just ridiculous. Deletion is the worst penalty to a character and shouldn't be dished out without SOME sort of discussion between the rule breaker and rule enforcer. Honestly, I never thought in a million years that that trigger would be against the rules. This is a roleplay based mud. It was a roleplay trigger. At some point the enforcers of the rules need to humanize that process. Intent and severity have to matter. What if a new player comes in and goes through that same thing? He gets summoned to hell and says, you're being deleted for triggering. No, you can't talk to me about it and I won't talk to you about it either. No justification other than, RULE 6, you broke it. How many new players are going to read help rule2?

I'm not even arguing against the super harsh penalties, even though they're ridiculous. I'm arguing that there can't be a indiscriminate delete/wack standard for breaking the rules. There has to be a human element involved. I OBVIOUSLY wasn't intentionally cheating or trying to get ANY advantage whatsoever. There has to be a consideration for unintentional rule breaking and it's the job of the enforcer, using a dialogue with the player, to make that determination ESPECIALLY with new players, although I'm not one. This is a game and ultimately a game is only worth 2 ****s if someone is actually PLAYING it and there is absolutely no hope of gaining and retaining new players if this is how something like this can play out.

Were you ever punished for triggering on prior characters? The announcement post Thuban made seems to indicate that you were punished for triggering on Ammorial just 3 weeks before the deletion of Ezaya. The fact that Thuban told you not to bother arguing your case is, in this circumstance, pretty valid because you were caught red-handed with incontrovertible proof. It would have been nothing more than a waste of your time to try arguing it because you were guilty. It's best to just accept the punishment, stop using triggers, and move on.

I really don't think I'm being obtuse when I say that this wording doesn't leave -any- room for misinterpretation. I'm not trying to pick on you, but you really should have just read the rules, and if another one of your characters had already been deleted for triggering, you have even less of an excuse than a new player would.

Although on that note, to answer your last question...
All of them? Help game, help newbie, and even the MOTD that every single player sees upon connecting to the game makes it abundantly obvious that you have to follow the rules and makes it really obvious where they are.

there's a reason the who list doesn't break double digits most days during happy....and it's a complete ghost town the other 22 hours of the day.

read this thread and think to urself...why do so many punishments on shattered kingdoms end with deletion and/or bans? a 1 level curse and loss of all equipment would have been a harsh enough penalty. deletion and/or a ban is only a penalty if the player penalized continues playing. if they bail out and go play another game, ur only penalizing the already dwindling who list.

Edoras, I think you are missing my point and the point of others here. We understand it is a rule, the rule was broken, and there is a clear punishment for that rule being broken. Everyone in this discussion understands that.

My point is that this is a game, a game that requires multiplease people to play and have fun with. Just as at the end of the day, we are required to side step some rp or issues for the sake of other players (ie, GM elf not killing a Novice Delf), that would run them from the game, I think the game admistrators should look at what is best for the players as well. Who here honestly thinks that an obvious rp trigger should result in such a harsh penalty?

This is a game and should be treated as such. No one is going to loose their job over the decisions that are made here.

No, I get your point and I understand it. For what it's worth, I think it would be nice if the minimum punishment for a trigger that provided no gameplay benefit was lowered to a level curse. That said, I can understand the RM's stance of not wanting to lessen the penalty on account of just introducing another layer of reasoning to be questioned by the playerbase. I wouldn't be surprised at all to eventually see a post of "Why did XXX only get a level curse for his trigger but YYY got deleted, I'm quitting because the IMMs are subjective and cheating."

My last posts weren't responding to that though, I was responding to Ezaya, who made it pretty clear from his posts that he didn't expect the punishment and that a new player wouldn't expect it either. I disagree with that perspective because the rules are abundantly clear that triggering is illegal and your character will be deleted if you do it, it's displayed prominently among all the other rules and ignorance isn't a reasonable excuse.

I haven't re-read your posts due to word count, but when I was going through the first time it sure seemed like you were in favor of this rule, and when you continued to attack Ezaya for his posts, it emphasized that. I think you invented the issue you're arguing. Nobody's gone after Thuban. Just the rules.

Now you're just lying, so I'm feeling less sympathy toward you. First, let's start by getting the verbatim text of what I said to you during the course of our conversation:



I also am not thrilled by how this went down. Your previous character had been retired for botting for eight hours straight in the newbie zone, yet you still kept triggering on your next character even though the text in Rule 6 is as clear as day. How I would have preferred it went down is if you stopped triggering after Ammorial.

As for the more general discussion of rules and punishment, I'm certainly interested in player input about that. I'd rather see it in a new thread aimed at comprehensive rules reform.

don't think the game needs comprehensive rules reform cuz they r not the problem. it's the punishment for breaking those rules that needs to be changed. just remove the word "deletion" from help rules and replace it with "loss of 1 level and all equipment"

that will sting just as much, but it less likely to result in a player quitting sk