Shattered Kingdoms

For all I know Ezaya was triggering more than just an emote after losing invis, but for those triggers that people sort of dumbly make not thinking about the rule, could we possibly get a lesser offense version of the punishment to keep them around?

The rule as written is as clear as it can be: trigger use means retirement. Any alterations to that force the Rules Manager to make more interpretations and judgment calls, make the rule and its enforcement less clear, and open up the potential for more bias and hurt feelings to creep into the enforcement process. As it is now, everyone knows that triggers of any form are not allowed at Shattered Kingdoms and they always result in retirement. This is an extremely easy punishment to avoid.

For the record, in every seemingly-innocuous trigger case I've had to enforce as Rules Manager, I would like to have cut the player a break. But, is that because I was being biased? Also, what if I overlooked something and the trigger wasn't as innocuous as it seemed? The rule as written does not allow for this kind of second-guessing and, despite seeming harsh in some cases, it is at least fair.

Yeah, as much as there are practical differences between a blink;blink;blink trigger, a jailtime botting trigger, and a trigger to take actions immediately when you or your opponent regains footing, I don't think there's a much more clear or fair interpretation than what's present now: It's simply not worth it to trigger something, however mundane it is. You only have yourself to blame if you to do it, because it's really clearly written in the rules.

I still am not a fan of the fact that the game still so heavily favors those who trigger in one way that is all but impossible to prove when triggered well, which is prone lag, but I hashed over that long ago so there's no much reason to go over it again.

Your statement is in conflict with what D has said and supported else where. Triggers use to highlight and segment information client side is perfectly fine. Triggers used to enter commands and change alias are against the rules. In fact Cmud has a trigger pack you can download I dont know if it is still in the original Cmud download. Which as a lot of important things highed for combat care of Finneys. So as far as Everyone knows that triggers of any form are not allowed in shattered kingdoms is just wrong. In fact from the help file it is even questionable if the rules where broken

When you look at this wording it actually sounds like it is at the whim of the rules manager by the use of the word CAN. The emote in question could be been use to prevent being logged out for inactivity but however it would only trigger a single time and if they player was actively at their keyboard it wouldnt have violated that part of the rule either, so it doesnt really violate the spirit of that part of the rule either.

Im not saying this decision in particular should be revised but I seriously think the admin need to take a hard look at punishments in general. Everyone who was informed of the trigger basically said why didnt you make an alias to do it to the player. A warning would have likely been enough in this case or an education on how to do local echo triggers. When we have a player base as small as we do we need to consider how harsh a punishment we are giving out. Are we a welcoming community or are we the kind of people who force 50-100 hours on someone for a single mistake. I am a big fan of letting a hundred guilty people go free than sending one innocent to jail mentality. I would quite rule 10 but I know it would come off as an insult.

Black and white is the alignment system of SK not how we as people should be interacting with each other. If you as a rules manager can not see shades of grey then there might be an issue because there is two sides to every argument. I think that a lot of people who have been pushed away from SK recently have been done so by this black and white punishment method.

An important point is that a rules manager is always making judgement calls. Who they snoop is the biggest judgement call of all on all decisions.

if a trigger causes ur client to send commands to the mud, it is illegal and ur character will get deleted if ur caught

if a trigger doesn't cause ur client to send commands to the mud, u will be fine

pretty simple rule of thumb

it's pointless to even worry about this type of trigger cuz it doesn't send commands to the mud, but to the client itself...so there is no way to police it. they r not really that useful on a game like sk anyway cuz the combat rounds r slow enough to make them unnecessary.

That's actually a wrong rule of thumb. There was a conversation on this a while ago on the forums that Dulrik chimed in on, and there's some edge cases where you could still be automating your character even if every action required some keypress on behalf of the user.

As an example, it's perfectly legal to have a complicated trigger setup that, when you press one button for "info," gags the output and modifies a client-side visual map of your party highlighting the low HP members in red, allowing you to then click on the member you wanted to heal and healing accordingly.

However, it would be illegal if there was also a command that would always heal the lowest HP member in your group according to your client-side map, regardless of who they were or what position they were in.

There's a fine line there, and it revolves around the following statement, also part of the rules.
I would word it the following way. If you have a script that either sends commands on behalf of your character or otherwise modifies your commands in an automated fashion, that's cheating.

I agree with Finney/Thuban that the helpfile is quite clear and that the rule is quite clear. I also think any experienced player who screws this one up probably also yells at the teller about the price of a frozen pizza. But I think the small who list should be incentive to be a little more lenient.

kid that is the right rule of thumb

cuz there is no way for anyone not watching ur client screen to know if a trigger is sending a command to the client itself. if u want to avoid getting deleted, make sure ur triggers r not sending commands to the mud and u will be fine.

the rest is just an esoteric conversation that ultimately has no means of detection or enforcement

the punishments on sk r ridiculous. nothing short of out of character threats/harassment or hacking the game or another player's character should result in deletion, retirement or a ban. there r plenty of punishments that would discourage players from cheating without going full bushido and slapping players with deletion for innocuous stuff like triggering an emote.

i'm not blaming thuban cuz he's just the messenger in this situation, but the rulez and the punishment for breaking them is part of the reason we can barely break double digits even during happy hour lately.