Shattered Kingdoms

But it could be, and that was pretty much my point. There are so many areas that have been around for an exceptionally long time that some players are exceptionally experienced with, who could reasonably do what you ask. Staff always has the right to yay/nay what gets published. Now to your own suggestion - if staff can take the bit of time when creating a new area to insure that it's accessible and the average player can figure out how to get there/trigger the quests, then that is a good thing.

Ung - headache. Bit less forum reading, me thinks.

Reviving this ancient thread partly because I like the general idea and partly because I want to talk about my thoughts about adventuring areas.

Most adventuring areas will have a central mystery and/or backstory that a careful and persistent player should be able to solve. These mysteries are solved in generally three ways, which I’ll break down into three broad categories:

a) Puzzle-like. All the pieces are there; it is just a matter of finding them and putting them together. You figure out a riddle; you read a description in a room and figure out the next step.
b) Trial and error. Experiment with different things until you figure out how something works. “What happens if I put the torch here?” “What happens if fly rather than walk?”
c) Luck. There’s no clue or hint—you just have to stumble on it or have someone else tell you. (The edge between trial and error and luck is fairly blurry, admittedly—what one person attempts on the third try might never occur to another person at all. The distinction I have in mind is that there is no reasonable motivation within an area for a player to do X in order to get Y. )

Of course, you’ll need to use all three of these solving methods in some areas. I generally prefer A-style puzzles and mysteries that reward the attentive explorer. I don’t mind B-type trial and error areas, though—those can be the most satisfying in some ways. C-type Luck can be maddening.

My point is that areas that depend on C-type luck to get through (or more likely, the whispered secrets of players who have been playing for years) are not really well-designed. Also frustrating are B-type trial-and-error areas that also have savage monsters constantly beating you up, making experimentation mightily difficult.



So I like the idea of having a NPC or a book give a brief guided hint about how to figure out an area. I don’t think all areas need it—frankly it’s great to have some very challenging areas that would stay as they are. But areas that feature lots of Type-Bs + tough NPCs and/or the Type Cs could use it. And sometimes, too, perhaps what is needed is simply a few more hints liberally sprinkled in the area itself, making Type Cs and Bs more like Type As.


I’m going to work on some things like this starting in a couple months, particularly with a couple of notorious areas in Uxmal.

I'm going to bump this for a few reasons.
Firstly, 82 percent on the poll shows that's this is something players want.
Secondly, a different thread said that 'the game is swimming in loot.' I then commented that the loot might be out there, but we don't know where to find it.
Thirdly, I really want this in the game.

This can be something the entire community helps create by pming an Imm the 'hints' they would think are appropriate for each location.

Zavijah? Any update on if you're still working on this? Has any Imm stepped in in his (im guessing here) absence?

This isn't a bad idea, but no one is actively working on this currently, that I'm aware.

Id bring up that it was brought up that a precedent was set that nothing like this was made by builders in the past so can we give builds some new guide lines to make it happen for all future projects. If we go back and cover the old ones in time that would be nice but there is no reason not to have it start somewhere.

Also mentioned was the precedent of not sharing information openly. This is a precedent of players that each person can change.

If nothing else, the de facto wisewoman in the Adventurer Academy might indicate that even if the exact form of this idea isn't actively being developed, builders seem to be taking note of the good ideas in it. The fact that SK's other gold star areas (Chancel, VoA, Mortoon, Cloud Realms, the Grotto, just to name a few) also had/have storytellers inside them is probably something to take comfort in.

True, that's a good point.

I would like to see this implemented less in books providing details, and more in the wiseman being a bard telling stories.
There are in game already several bards that make mention to areas, and tell stories about heroes of the past etc.
D'astae has a bard that tells several interesting stories for example.
Something along this line that gives helpful hints, mentions of areas, vague locations, legendary items through story lore and such.

From that point, its up to the players to figure the rest out.

I would argue that it is far easier to patch a book to remain relevant than to patch a storyteller. For that reason alone, I would make a book rather than a bard if I were a builder with limited resources. Ultimately, it's the same thing to the end user: written text. It's just in self-regulated dosage levels as a book.

If this were a different kind of game with multi-modality, I would definitely argue otherwise. "Visual learners" and all that stuff. But it's all the same medium.

Think about the adventurers guild telling you about the dragons.
I think it should be just the same.

The fact that D'Aatae has some of this is cool.
But D'Aatae camp is still a ways out there. I want to see these somewhere that is easily accessible to casual players.
Once you GM, it should be the next stage of the game.