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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:50 pm
Posts: 3502
Location: Canada
SK Character: Karsh
ObjectivistActivist wrote:
Their int is not good enough and their resistances/immunities don't balance their lack of saves/enchantable slots. Physical dmg resistance through toughness is not a consideration for A sorc. Any race sorc getting hit is going to die, toughness or not. And again their int is not good enough.


ObjectivistActivist wrote:
Not without sitting and releasing all other spells. And they can't sleep with a charm until near the end of their lives.


Nope, definitely not refuting your nonsense claims of griffon sorc superiority with facts related to the game mechanics necessary for successful play. Totally relying on personal attacks to undermine your questionable credibility as a reliable source of intel for a newb looking for advice on sorc races. Jeeze, you got me so bad. I think I'll buy stock in an Aloe Vera provider now.


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:01 pm
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Location: I'm in a glass case of emotion!
SK Character: Retired Troll
Styles wrote:
Baldric wrote:
The idea that you can join the fist with your griffon sorc and suddenly be able to claw your way through high-end NPCs is ludicrous.

You don't need to join any faction to be able to hold your own against a lot of NPCs with a griffon sorc with no charm. Obviously I'm not talking about going one on one against boss NPCs this way, but perhaps you are unaware of just how effective griffon toughness really is, or how combat-capable a non-factioned griffon sorcerer with appropriate buffs is, especially now that sorcerers do not get fatigued from GS and haste. The point is they don't even need a charmie to explore most places, yet all of the arguments against griffons seem to be based on the fundamental assumption that a sorcerer needs a charmie 100% of the time. Griffons don't. In the event they do, they can get one just like any other sorcerer. And if, for some reason, they require a high INT for something, they can get that too. And, just to add to this, consider that a griffon polymorphed into a sprite is better than a sprite, yet a sprite polymorphed into a griffon is worse than a griffon.

Griffons do get extra stat points, so if you were permanently polymorphed as a sprite or something, via wand or scroll, that would be an interesting, if annoying build.

And what areas exactly can a griffon sorc explore without a charm? An unaffiliated griffon sorc will die to any high level NPC that is a melee class and has a weapon. Or to a naked barb NPC. Your confusion might be related to your delusions about the HP pool of sorcerers. I recall you thinking your human sorc would survive four voodoos or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:18 am 
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Who here has actually rolled a griffon sorc other than OA?


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:22 am 
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SK Character: Karsh
jreid_1985 wrote:
Who here has actually rolled a griffon sorc other than OA?


I know the_me and Threnody have both played them in the past, the latter more extensively than the former. Other than that, you don't see them like ever. I've played 3 myself, 1 to age death and the other two until I just couldn't deal with how subpar it was mechanically, making it nearly impossible to back rp effectively.


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:12 am 
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Location: Newbtown
Baldric wrote:
Griffons do get extra stat points, so if you were permanently polymorphed as a sprite or something, via wand or scroll, that would be an interesting, if annoying build.

And what areas exactly can a griffon sorc explore without a charm? An unaffiliated griffon sorc will die to any high level NPC that is a melee class and has a weapon. Or to a naked barb NPC. Your confusion might be related to your delusions about the HP pool of sorcerers. I recall you thinking your human sorc would survive four voodoos or something.


A griffon sorcerer absolutely can mop up on melee NPCs. Just not boss NPCs. Toughness, low carry weight, max STR and DEX via GS and haste, armor, MI and, if necessary, SA and you're golden. Don't underestimate toughness or griffon claw damage output even w/o enhanced damage. When the NPCs miss their bashes, acid blast or color spray. Particularly strong non-boss NPCs with good weapons may require help from Lathron.

I am glad you understand the sprite point. If you think about why a strictly PvE sorcerer would ever need EQ it is to ward off NPC spells (since griffons resist gas breath). So to facilitate this build you roll a griffon and get a tiny ~20 lb. MR suit for when you want to use EQ then use a scroll for sprite mode. You can base your trains around optimizing for both griffon and sprite mode. The only indisputable train allotment is to max mana. I also would max HP and in no case would I put a stat higher than the lower of griffon or sprite racial max (generally lower). I would have no large equipment, all medium for griffon mode, with no need for a weapon or shield or even large container. This can all be accomplished with easy to get, easy to replace equipment.

You could also pull this off with a deep-elf polymorph secondary build.

I personally would not train art very much if at all. No more than 6 at the absolute maximum and probably just 3 or 0. High art really only has value for PvP.

All of this is mostly academic as a sorcerer can do a vast amount of exploring invisible and ethereal. A griffon can hang with most of the ethereal non-boss NPCs he may encounter.


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:50 pm
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SK Character: Karsh
As an additional reason not to listen to styles about griffon sorcs:

They don't resist gas, and haven't resisted gas for a number of years.


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
I would also recommend training at least nine art if not maxing it, since enchanting is apparently affected by art and you can enchant for stats now anyway. However, if your main goal is exploring, I'd suggest maxing mana first.


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:29 am 
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ObjectivistActivist wrote:
As an additional reason not to listen to styles about griffon sorcs:

They don't resist gas, and haven't resisted gas for a number of years.

They are not immune.


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:33 am 
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Edoras wrote:
I would also recommend training at least nine art if not maxing it, since enchanting is apparently affected by art and you can enchant for stats now anyway. However, if your main goal is exploring, I'd suggest maxing mana first.

It's a waste to get that much art for a PvE character. Even for the enchanting benefit.


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 Post subject: Re: Best race for explorer sorcerer?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:41 pm
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Could you please clarify on why a griffon polymorphed into a sprite is useful? What is the relative concentration cost of polymorphing via a scroll? On my last character I made it up to Expert I think but I never used Scribe or figured it out.

Regarding exploring/hoarding: I have sporadic play times and found in other MUDs that if I'm put in the situation where I'm in a group/clan/cabal/faction/etc I tend to let my mates down. Often I have to quit with very little notice. Essentially I have to play SK as if it's a viable game for single-player so I'm choosing a class that I understand is self-reliant. Since I'm new to SK exploring sounds like fun. I enjoy reading descriptions and figuring out puzzles. I don't keep equipment I can't use, and I don't know why people do that in general except for ego.

And, last couple times I've logged in SK has had only 8-12 players, so... yeah.


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