Shattered Kingdoms

It's been said before by Dulrik that there is no diplomacy in how leadership flags are given. The cabals and tribunals don't vote on the matter, so you can in fact end up with a leader that you don't want or respect because they happened to have the hours to get it. You can also end up in a situation like the Harlequins with three leaders and the faction practically dissolving because again the factions aren't a democracy.

In cases where leaders aren't respected by the majority there's a simple and realistic solution. RP and learn things about the game to garner that respect. *Gasp* It is a place where role play and tactics combine so maybe RP your way to gaining people's respect. Rolling over on your back like a puppy and pissing everywhere when PK happens isn't going to work. Getting nervous, attempting, screwing up, and admitting your failure at PK and trying to learn from it..that gains respect. Even if you're not very good at PK you can become influential. My characters SUCK massively at PK and yet I've never had a problem with IC respect. Funny how that works. It's because I put effort in. If you want respect as a leader try gaining it. Obama didn't just get respect, he's earned it. He's not an RP only player. Respect...you keep using that word and I don't think it means what you think it does.

Let's please not go there...

...Seriously? Out of all of that, that's the part you focus on with a comment all but guaranteed to accomplish the opposite of your implied intent? Wtf.

Besides which, he did. Not of everyone but of enough to win him an election.

See but that's the thing. When the only real viable way to GM is to smash peoples faces, whether killing or stunning, you make sure that that's what people at the top do best: smashing people's faces. When you allow people to GM via using their whole skillset, you MIGHT (I know this won't completely solve everything) help promote more RP than just 'I's here to smash yo face.'

Really don't think the correlation is as cut and dry as you want to make it seem. Those who can plvl well can do so because they understand and can work best within the framework of the game's mechanics. That also, coincidentally, translates to pvp mechanics since in sk they're largely the same as pve mechanics. It not a mindset it's a skillset.

I just want to highlight something:

There is a difference in player respect, character respect, and respecting the power of a position.

Where the game lacks teeth perhaps... it certainly seems like it may, given the predilection to equate PK prowess with respect is:

Respecting the power of a position.

It's actually reasonable RP to have weak players in powerful positions (in some of the cultures... you might not see that in some of the more violent kingdoms, etc.)

But it should also be reasonable that players in powerful positions be able to wield power.

Take a Tribunal for example:

What does someone wield as a leader in a tribunal?

> A select set of NPCs
> Presumeably the direction of a select group of Adventurers (other player run characters) who are likewise Tribunal Members.

These are the current game tangibles.

IN RP terms what might they wield that are game intangibles right now?

> Part or the whole of the of kingdom's overall military
> An ear to the Kingdom's leadership regarding laws. (eg. The making of a new law: All elves are outlawed on sight. Guardsmen are to attack on sight.) [There is nothing wrong with in game racism in a fantasy setting]
> The confidence of the populace
> etc.

(I'm sure others could list much more)

You can have no respect for a player, and yet respect the power of the position they wield. That's totally fine.

And keep in MIND that in RP it's very easy to let YOUR OWN respect muddle In game respect.

For example, you may not respect another player (for their own style, views, etc.) but your character may still respect their character. Or visa versa, you may respect a player, but the question is does your character respect their character.

It's very easy to let those biasses slip by.

For example:
I'm sure by now (at an OOC level) most players know that I'm playing a cripple in the game. And though you may respect me (or you may not) for the views and arguments I'm putting forth on the forums, I wouldn't expect you to necessarily respect my character. He's a virtual noodle right now waiting to be gobbled up. I know that. I'm purposefully playing my first character on this mud from a position of weakness because no matter what character I played, I the player would be starting at a handicap in terms of game foreknowledge. (By the way I'm pledging to the mud right now that I will only ever play one character at a time. There will be no alts for me.)

I've also been taking my time in leveling because I enjoy RP and I'm embracing the role that I'm trying to play in more ways than just leveling. Though... some IC events recently I'm not going to point fingers or reveal more than that have made him be more conscious of his advancement (for better or worse).

Anyway the whole point of this divergence was that it's important when we talk about respect to sort the various types of respect from each other and consider them seperatly. And it's especially important that in game respect be filterred through your character's eyes, and not your own.

That doesn't negate the discussion of ensuring that in game power structures are reinforced to help reinforce the prestige of certain positions.

We could make a system that would give the best RPers instant GM and they would still get owned by PKers. There actually is skill involved in PK that you have to learn. Giving XP as a reward for RPing is fine to an extent, but no amount of fountain chat will earn you another player's respect. Yes, there's a mindset problem among the PKer population, but if you can't earn their respect (regardless of your level status), perhaps your RP isn't as good as you thought.

Sure, but the president (or any real authority figure) has age and history behind him (e.g., he leveled up). When I was 8 I was the dictator of elementary school recess, with people lining up to do my bidding and follow my lead, but I couldn't take that into the political arena and run for president. Fountain RPers who refuse to at least make it to the master level deserve the curb-stomping they receive: they are more analogous to the self-entitled spoiled brat of a twenty-something who actually thinks he has enough talent to make it in life, though he's never actually trained or honed that ability.


You don't necessarily have to be the best PKer to earn the respect of good PKers, but you still have to "put in the effort" of leveling.

I absolutely agree. But see what I'm saying isn't giving rewards for fountain RP. It's giving rewards for learning how to do your job basically. Taking priests for example, we often tell newbies that priests are a good way to learn the ropes. How does a priest become a grandmaster? By actively pummeling stuff. There's really no other viable way. And so the non vets have it reinforced in their minds to go out and pummel stuff when they get into PK. Then we laugh at them, or get pissed at them if they are in our group, when they go into PK swinging their polemace, and throwing flamestrike and Sof at the enemy. Well that's how they became GM. And to get there, they most likely had to have a big strong warrior defend them as they wimpily throw their polemace and spells at the enemy. If they could level by using their whole spellset, however, they could actually level with the warrior. The warrior fights and the priest keeps them alive. That can (doesn't have to, but can) build actual respect between players, since they are helping each other, and they are preparing more effectively for PK. In the first scenario, you might have a great RPer, but its entirely reasonable for people not to respect the char because he completely noobs it up. But he's simply doing what the game has trained him to do. When you get XP for learning your role, you're bound to do at least a little better in PK and maybe even earn some respect, even though you might not be top notch.

I have not had even a small problem in people respecting my character or my character's position.

The only time I ever have had such a problem is when I claim a big bad title from novice level and expect people to go along with it, only to find a halberd in my face (or an arrow to the knee).