Shattered Kingdoms

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I hope you can figure out where that goes.

Hey Styles, you can't link logs from this site. Look up "Pilnor gets the leading role in a George Romero film" on the website which shall not be named. You'll see my gnome hammer merc putting an MC necro in jail. He had time to cast dispel on me and order a hit on me before the fifth combat round had passed, as I walked in right after he had ordered a hit on some peacekeeper soldiers. By the time he had tried to dispel me and order a hit on me, he was second row and decided to go ethereal instead of getting face-rocked by the HoL that was coming straight for him. The necro carried 2 controls, six wraiths, and a GM giant barbarian in front of him. All of the undead were equipped with enchanted high accuracy two handed weapons. I was a gnome mercenary of the Hammer, I didn't have sanctuary (which would have prevented a LOT of the incoming damage I ended up receiving), and I had low level SA. I carried a very low probability of dying into that fight except for RP reasons, yet I was still fully intending to die if it came to it.

I could have easily driven him off with zero risk if I was a peacekeeper of any class. If you want, go ahead and look up Pyras v. Misha logs while you're at it if you want to see how easy it -was- to dismantle a necromancer 1v1 from a tribunal character's point of view. It's even easier now thanks to the fact that animates have less HP and do less damage.

Here's another factual statement: you have cut and pasted logs into this thread.

Here's another factual statement. I am not certain that you do not wear your pants on your head. You can't copy and paste an entire log into the forums. There's a space limitation on posts and it pisses Dulrik off. Now stop being obtuse.

Ok. In that log we see that he is in enemy territory and has to contend with bounty NPCs. We further see the giant legionnaire for some reason goes after your spirit steed, which is a lucky break for you. We further see that those wraiths are not buffed and maybe not even berserking Their stabs are being deflected. You would never deflect the stab of a buffed, berserked wraith using enchanted two-handed weapons no matter how well enchanted your armor was. Frankly, I doubt those weapons were even very well enchanted seeing how many deflections you get. You simply cannot get deflections off of berserking, buffed GM barbarians with two-handers. You never see that happen. In the end, you could not have won. You retreated. He then decided to suicide into ethereal law NPCs.

I don't really know what this log is supposed to prove. This is really not any different than any other melee guy getting overwhelmed by a necromancer and then making an escape. Any Hammer melee guy could do the exact same thing: tank for a while then run away.

I didn't need to stick around, since he went ethereal. I was going to let the dirt clear and then clean up the rest of the undead. Pilnor was fine with not being able to handle an entire undead army straight-on, because all he needed was a single person with holy word to make quick work of any necros. This was the only time where a necro bothered to attack Exile without any peacekeepers online.

Looks like 5 wraiths got a total of 21 attacks with hunting spears. I can't tell if that's with fury or without. Mood defensive, buffs and enchantments are pretty nice though.

That log proves that people who whine about how overwhelming necro damage *was* just don't want to acknowledge that it's only overwhelming because they don't buff up and don't know what they're doing. Kythroghalas threw everything he had at me and wasn't even able to win a simple 1v1. If I'd actually had someone to holy word, or a peacekeeper, he wouldn't have been able to do anything.

This is a constructive approach to take. Look, I am not completely unsympathetic. If we prove over the next several months that necromancers can do nothing, after multiple people have made a best effort, we can definitely do things.

But it's true that what is happening in this thread is not helpful, because instead of encouraging people to try out necros and prove that he's right, Edoras is going out of his way to tell people not to play them. All that tells me is that he isn't currently in the right mindset to try creative new approaches.

Maybe none of the creative new approaches will actually work. But if they don't, then you can bring out those logs and I would be more than willing to consider further changes to make those strategies work.

PS. I am probably going to separate ALL of the later necromancer discussion here into it's own thread, because it really makes it impossible to discuss any of the other aspects of the update, of which there were several. In fact, there are several line items that I'm surprised no one has even asked about.

Sorry, no, unless you're going to tell me you had like 20 MP enchantments on all of the pieces of armor that got a deflection. I just don't think you can deflect a well-enchanted two-hander from a berserked, giant strengthed, GM barbarian. I'll believe it if anyone can find one example from a log that confirms it is possible. Something isn't adding up.

It's also noteworthy that a furied hunting spear will get 5 attacks. 5 x 5 = 25. So, either some of these wraiths were furied and the others weren't (possible, since we never see them berserk in the log), or for some reason four out of five of them fail their fourth attack skill (unlikely for 4/5 to fail).

Given the evidence, that there are multiple deflected shots, and that the wraiths aren't getting their maximum number of attacks, I think that we have a case of partial berserking going on. The selection of controls is also questionable.

Regardless of these facts, the outcome is still just like for any other Hammer warrior who would rather not die. The Hammer guy flees because he is able to not get bashed. He doesn't actually win. In this case the necromancer suicides into law NPCs.

EDIT: just checked the log again. There were six wraiths. That makes it even more likely we're dealing with unberserked wraiths.

this guy just

just going in