Shattered Kingdoms

Wrong.

Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about.

That is not how SA vs SA works.

Also, you really need to go try playing the game. Casters are the top dogs of SK. And shaman is one of the best classes in the game.

Just because you suck doesn't mean anything needs changed.

Alright, found a spare minute or four. This may be owned by autocorrect at first, but here we go:

Awareness of scripted items and awareness of balance are mutually exclusive thoughts, so the assertion that knowledge of one is knowledge ofe the other is a failed approach. I'll try to explain how I consider balance in SK, and why I'm against buffs being spread frivolously without getting this to be too convoluted.

I consider it in absolute values. I'll be using arbitrary numbers just to get the context across.

Let's say a merc has a base combat value of 10. A hellion, a base combat value of 4.

In straight combat with no other considerations, merc wins every time.

However, a hellion with the base combat value of 4 is supplemented by a dominate, which adds a value of 3 to combat effectiveness, and maledictions/spells which add a value of 4 to combat effectiveness.

Suddenly, a merc is at 10, but the hellion jumped up to 11. With spells and a dominate, it'll be a close fight, but a hellion will win.

However, the merc then begins to gain effects (enchants, buffs) that reduce maledictions/spell effectiveness of opponents to a 1. The hellion goes back down to 8, and so it could be a pretty close fight but the merc at 10 has a better chance due to enchantments.

The fact here that there is no way to buff base combat effectiveness, however there are ways to manipulate supplemental values in the form of spells. When a paladin, say, has a base effectiveness of 5 and a merc is at base 10, if the paladin gets +6 supplemental effectiveness from GM spells (prot,armor,sanc)... it's all fun and games, 10 v 11. However, if the merc gets +3 effectiveness from lower levels of the same spell, that merc will win every time, 13 v 11.

This also skews in the ways of casters, too. Say necros have base combat effectiveness of 1, but supplementals of 18 with enchants and eth. A merc might, at most, add 3. Necros win every time in that circumstance.

These are arbitrary values, but they indicate what I consider class balance. The prevalence of buffs diminishes the tools classes use to equalize combat effectiveness to the point those personal buffs are ineffective at balancing.

When a paladin, hellion, sorc, etc cannot supplement their lower combat effectiveness, but higher combat effectiveness classes can supplement with higher spells, you start walking a line of balance where certain combat classes can perpetually retain a higher effectiveness that can never be equaled or outdone. When a set of classes will always be top tier, no matter the prep of the other side, you run into balance issues between classes.

The topic is highly debatable, but the idea that a slew of buffs will affect class balance is pretty easy to accept.

As Ardith said, however, there seems to be a package in the works that will heavily change this nature of the game. The smart idea is to wait and see how the cards fall.

To say that buffs don't affect class balance, however, is purely ignorant.

This thread is almost as lawlable as Edoras crying about lighten load, all while having the twinkle star.

Try playing the game Ive played for ten years? I suck? Right.... Thanks WW, Ive only asked about 10 times now to please refrain from flames and I wonder why you dont seem to get my point? Now I no longer acknowledge your responses to this thread.

So, instead of having items in the game that give pallies/hellions/etc a chance against classes that will normally roflstomp them, you would just rather have a set system of basically.

Merc beats hellion every time.

That's what it sounds like. You want to remove things like the infernal halberd, holy white shield/etc things that are class specific and designed to give mediocre classes a chance to do something outside of group PvP. Enchants alone would make that an impossible fight for a hellion without things like haste/gs/sanc/etc on the dominate.

Also, you factored dominate as being worth too many points. It's 1-2 at best.

Also, this is ignoring the fact that the merc could just wield a reaching weapon and instantly win vs a paladin/hellion straight up. Since they would have no access to fly, apparently.

I feel that class balance should not be based on its accessibility to unique items. That's not class balance. It is using a bandaid to cover the flaws of a broken system. Also, the numbers are arbitrary: they hold no real value.

Stop arguing useless little points of tact, you're missing the forest for the trees.

I'd rather remove the insane amounts of buffs that get them outclassed. IE, eth on necros and SA being brewable, etc, etc. Sure, might there be some tweaking that needs done afterwards to bring different classes to snuff? Yes.

But then you're not clutching a broke system with an assload of buffs.

Remove the ridiculous amount of buffs, make unique stuff to classes UNIQUE, and let the cards fall where they may and adjust classes individually from there.

Then, once balance is achieved, perhaps unique items that really can set 5% of people above the rest. Until balance is achieved, however, we won't really have context for making the strong stronger (like these slews of buffs do now), and making the weak most impotent.

Items != class balance and should not be used to supplement it. Buffs affect class balance greatly by making unique class spells impotent.

Ethereal on necromancers was another point belonging in this thread, thank you Jerin.

Items in SK are a part of the balance.

I don't see why you have such a problem acknowledging that.

We are playing an RPG.

And equipment makes a difference.

Wow, wtf is going on here!

The only way for an item to be better than the [REDACTED] diamond found IN EXILE is for it to have a script.

I'm pretty sure I'm never going to go to the IC or anywhere else when I can get equivalent of the best armor in the game, inside Exile.

Merc does not beat hellion every time.

However, I get the distinct feeling that merc *does* beat treefinger every time.

Items are not part of the god damn balance. That was just an imm going, "holy [REDACTED], I have building access and can make xxx and yyy do zzz!"

The infernal halberd originates from before weapon subtypes existed, and hellions are completely dominant in that time with the ability to dominate NPCs that had thousands of hps, and cleave in general did way more damage.

Also, does this thread really feature people QQing about necros?

Holy mother of god.

Turn the [REDACTED] faucet off.

Really?

For a bunch of vets, you seem to have forgotten the days of SIXTY WRAITHS AND ETHEREAL NECRO.

That class has been nerfed into the ground so hard already.