Shattered Kingdoms

I think they do. A lot better than g/n/e l/n/c at least. I think that makes it -harder- to play because your "alignment" is really a set of "motivations" rather than anything else, so it really isn't as static a system as say a l/g that can just point to actions. There has to be thought, and that's hard to convey in an online game.

I agree with whoever (p40? gasp) said that most people are probably dogmatic or unprincipled IRL!

For accuracy's sake, the alliance between Talons and keepers was dropped after my character went to a truce with the Crucible and suddenly Callie wanted to know how Rilalei had some container Irition carried, supposedly at Tari's behest. When he asked Tari why she didn't ask him about that herself but instead went through Callie in a roundabout way, Tari refused ever asking. You can't have both "Tari said X" and "Tari didn't say X" so obviously she was either lying or covering up for Callie's lies like the Iraqi Information Minister. Tari was butthurt when I implied that her craptastic RP would be reported so she dropped the alliance. But even though I did report that, apparently it's alright being a lying Dulrikian HF if she is in the keepers. I have some really fun quotes from that whole episode.

I think the alliance with the Hammer was dropped (by them) after they attempted to kill Genjis or Alisu in Nerina, I don't remember exactly.

To the subject at hand, Jack Bower has to deal with pretty clearly defined "evil". Batman can also be said to be scrupulous but leaning very much towards the grey side, tactics wise but there is never a question about Joker being a villain. The problem in SK is that other people's alignments are not played as consistently as movie baddies so you can have principled or scrupulous alignments behaving like unprincipled or diabolics (hammer-keepers lol), or dark auras that are persecuted simply for their auras and not their actual actions. You are supposed to have leeway when people do that, that's how lighties can talk about the "corruption" of other lighties and darkies talk about "lightie-loving traitors". The point is, what can a scrupulous character do against another scrupulous or even principled character that proclaims that he will break the law and kill whoever he wants, especially when the first scrupulous character is supposed to be a law-keeper. Go alignment-blind and weight the situation depending on the actions which is actual justice or go action-blind and simply assume that scrupulous = just and noble character than can't go wrong by definition?

This argument is stupid and moot. Clearly the IMMs have spoken. Reinald isn't a Talon leader any more. Tari is still a Peacekeeper leader. What does that say? I don't want to hear "IMM favoritism" crying because I assure you that OA is definitely not any IMM's favorite person.

Ummm, who said anything about Bauer being an example of Principled? The argument was that he was an example of Scrupulous.


This would include the rules cops in general live by. Cuff the bad guys, follow the rules.



Uh... what part of that is NOT jack Bauer?

And yeah, I almost included Batman in my previous post

And Erik, Zhensh Empire is a fulcrum. It's the geo-political balance point between the east and west, the dark and light. Leading the Talons is a tricky job for a scrupulous character. I've always held it is really more a job for a grey. A dogmatic or even unprincipled. The complaint, as I'm seeing it, is not that Reinald didn't do what was necessary to walk that tightrope that a Talon leader has to balance on, but that you eschewed all the drive of a scrupulous character to do so. That you disregarded Reinald's alignment. I also think throwing Reinald into the category of "miscreant" is somewhat exaggerated, but when we expect to see white, and see grey instead, the grey looks awfully dark. It's really too bad, because when I met Reinald when I was on Keth, and again on a couple other characters, I liked him. But somewhere about the time he took over Tensarie's mess, is when it seemed to fall apart. And, so he got booted from the Talons, Reinald is high profile, so redeem him. Use it. I think you can do that, but I think you have to put all of THIS behind you, and figure out Reinald's next chapter... See this not as an ending, but as an opportunity.

No one?

Not quite sure anyone did, but it seemed like it was becoming an argument of "No, Bauer isn't principled because...." and it made me wonder, who argued that he was??

Not exactly. While it is possible to play it this way, the governing body of Zhenshi, the Council of Blossoms, is predominately light aura. Very much predominately light aura, which a small, small touch of grey. Zhang did them too rough of a number for them to really be fully interested and invested in the dark anymore.

Only if you see it from the WRONG perspective

I only vaguely remember that quote from me about Jack Bauer. For the record, I only saw a few episodes of Season 1 and when I posted that, it was definitely before the end of the series -- maybe not even halfway through the series.

You've been spewing spiteful, useless statements like this for a while, now, and you're just wrong. Zhenshi is a light-aura country, just the only one that has the CAPACITY to have a dark leader of the law due to their more tempered, honorable, passive sensibilities. Anyone who tries to argue against this is just wasting everyone's time.

In the end, everyone can have their opinion, but what happened happened - and it won't be apologized for or changed, because it should've happened.

And as far as Jack Bauer - that mother #&@#er took a heroin addiction for the TEAM to get the bad guys. Sorry, he's all sorts of scrupulous. Give the man some respect.

/he also didn't shoot Sherry Palmer - tell me he ain't a saint.