Useless Helpfile(s?) and List Subtype

evena · **Posted:** Sat May 14, 2011 2:28 am

Hi. Yes, hi. I'm evena. I've played this game since 2000, and I'm still a noob.

CAN WE PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS:

Quote:

> help axe
[Skills help] Weapons Help

Automatic

Each weapon skill modifies a character's chance to hit and damage with any
weapon sub-type in that skill's weapon group. For classes with the parry
skill, a good knowledge of how to use your current weapon will enable better
parrying. Some weapons are capable of special actions.

The weapon groups contain the following weapon sub-types:

axe throwing axe, battle-axe, double-bladed axe, great-axe, pole-axe
bow shortbow, longbow, compound bow, hunting bow, archery bow
crossbow hand crossbow, crossbow, siege crossbow, catapult, ballista
dagger dagger, skinning knife, tanto, hunting knife, push-knife,
throwing dagger, sai, curved dagger, straight dagger, khukri
flail flail, ball and chain, morningstar, nunchaku
mace club, spiked club, flanged mace, spiked mace, warhammer,
spiked warhammer, flanged pole-mace, spiked pole-mace
spear throwing spear, hunting spear, battle spear, ahlspiess, trident
polearm halberd, pike, bill, glaive, bec de corbin, scythe, naginata, lance
staff staff, cane, jo staff, bo staff, spiked staff, blade staff, ajatang
sword shortsword, gladius, scimitar, wakizashi, kris, machete, rapier,
epee, longsword, broadsword, katana, bastard sword, greatsword, cutlass
claymore, flamberge, no-dachi, falchion, khopesh, landsknecht
whip whip, riding crop, bullwhip, battle-whip, spiked chain
boulder boulder, ore, ballista bolt
exotic kama, sickle, kusari-gama, bandalore, bolo, shuriken, magical orbs

Two-handed weapons do not do additional damage but will allow the wielder to
make greater use of their strength. If a weapon has reach, it can reach across
that one rank in a group formation and still be used for melee combat. Some
weapons can be thrown, including many types of daggers, throwing axes, throwing
spears, bolos and shuriken. Flails and whips cannot be parried without special
training. The exotic skill cannot be taught or trained, and is dependent
solely upon level. Not every weapon that exists is listed here.

See also: parry throw 'specialize list'

Any weapon you type, you get this same help file. It's not really helpful, especially to a REAL newbie.

I decided to make a character that would benefit from the use of a spear. Would it not have been brilliant to have a help file that outlined for me what the different subtypes of spears were useful for, so that 3 subtypes later I wouldn't be ready to give up on the character because I can't find one with reach?

I bet there are plenty of veteran players who could help put these together. And I'm sure someone would appreciate it.

Expanding on this, once we have actual decent help files for the weapons, we have to tackle THIS:

Quote:

> list
Items for sale:
[ 1] A rose-hilted, cold-iron greatsword - a brand new medium cold iron sword
Price: 3 platinum, 3 gold, 6 silver (+2% sales tax).

[ 2] A rose-hilted, cold-iron shortsword - a brand new medium cold iron sword
Price: 2 platinum, 2 gold, 5 silver, 6 copper (+2% sales tax).

[ 3] A cold-iron club, decorated with rose-engravings - a brand new medium cold iron mace
Price: 2 platinum, 1 gold, 6 silver (+2% sales tax).

[ 4] A cold-iron spear, decorated with rose-engravings - a brand new medium cold iron spear
Price: 2 platinum, 5 gold, 2 silver (+2% sales tax).

[ 5] A cold-rose-hilted dagger - a brand new medium cold iron dagger
Price: 2 platinum, 2 gold, 5 silver, 6 copper (+2% sales tax).

[ 6] A cold-iron red and green-braided whip - a brand new medium cold iron whip
Price: 2 platinum, 1 gold, 6 silver (+2% sales tax).

[ 7] A two-handed, cold-iron rose-hilted double-bladed axe - a brand new medium cold iron axe
Price: 2 platinum, 3 gold, 4 copper (+2% sales tax).

[ 8] A cold-iron rose-hilted guisarm - a brand new medium cold iron polearm
Price: 2 platinum, 1 gold, 6 silver (+2% sales tax).

[ 9] A cold-iron rose-hilted rapier - a brand new medium cold iron sword
Price: 2 platinum, 2 gold, 8 copper (+2% sales tax).

[10] A cold-iron rose-hilted longsword - a brand new medium cold iron sword
Price: 2 platinum, 3 gold, 4 copper (+2% sales tax).

[11] A cold-iron spiked mace, decorated with rose-engravings - a brand new medium cold iron mace
Price: 2 platinum, 3 gold, 4 copper (+2% sales tax).

[12] A steel bow - a brand new medium steel bow
Price: 4 platinum, 8 gold, 5 silver, 4 copper (+2% sales tax).

[13] A short-handle hammer - a brand new tiny steel mace
Price: 4 platinum, 8 gold, 5 silver, 4 copper (+2% sales tax).

[14] A three-pronged spear - a brand new medium diamond spear
Price: 5 platinum, 5 gold, 1 silver (+2% sales tax). (enchanted)

How are you supposed to know that [6] is a battlespear, as opposed to [14] which costs a hell of a lot more and would be completely useless to my character? Are we really just going to require folks to shell out 8 platinum to figure out which spear would best suit them?

Please fix.

Ruxic · **Joined:** Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:35 am **Posts:** 150

I think you meant [4]

I agree that help files need many and frequent revisions, but I don't think any of these need to be as detailed as you asked.

1- Stupid or Ignorant purchasing decisions are a part of the realism of the game and make you dependent on veteran players (and thus some amount of role-playing.) The fumbling through every new discovery and unique social/RP experience of this game currently attracting me to this game, so I am biased here.

2- Going with my running practice of considering help files to be common knowledge, or untrained knowledge. They only contain knowledge that every character would have. A warlock with no experience with a spear should not be able to tell the advantages/disadvantages of a weapon simply by looking at it (and this is helped by the fact that a player can't simply look at a help file and compare it to your inventory.) Basically, you are ruining your advantage of knowing your weapon better than your enemy does

evena · **Posted:** Sat May 14, 2011 4:19 am

Yes. I meant [4].

Awesome. So you'd rather rely on highly OOC knowledge from other players (who may or may not be at your disposal, depending on when you play) than "OOC" knowledge from help files.

Roger that.

Sakhul · **Posted:** Sat May 14, 2011 9:57 am

Even my grandma knows you gotta use a battle spear.

grep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:50 pm **Posts:** 5522

The game would have you purchase and compare each weapon.

The community uses a list on a website.

That's just how it is.

Ruxic · **Joined:** Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:35 am **Posts:** 150

Weapon strengths and weaknesses are something you can learn ICly. Forgive me if I'm an RP purist, but I don't rely on OOC knowledge except for game-mechanics such as syntax.

mundufisen · **Posted:** Sat May 14, 2011 12:07 pm

I agree with the subtypes being listed when looking at the list, it should be pretty obvious what kind of weapon you're getting before getting it. It would be especially helpful to newbies who dont know which weapons are what subtype just by seeing them on the list.

Also, adding small details to an OOC help file about weapon's would have nothing to do with IC knowledge that a "warlock" would have, as you tried to refer to. Because they are just that, OOC -HELP- files. Also, i'm pretty sure even a warlock can look at a spear and be able to tell if it can reach something from the second row or not. :roll:

Rennus_Dragonsbane · **Posted:** Sat May 14, 2011 12:15 pm

mundufisen wrote:

Also, adding small details to an OOC help file about weapon's would have nothing to do with IC knowledge that a "warlock" would have, as you tried to refer to. Because they are just that, OOC -HELP- files. Also, i'm pretty sure even a warlock can look at a spear and be able to tell if it can reach something from the second row or not. :roll:

I think its been established that information in the help files is considered common IC knowledge.

Ruxic · **Joined:** Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:35 am **Posts:** 150

mundufisen wrote:

Also, i'm pretty sure even a warlock can look at a spear and be able to tell if it can reach something from the second row or not. :roll:

No. I've taken less then a handful of fencing lessons personally, between that and the history channels love for expounding the history of various wars, I've learned that what most people assume about a weapons capabilities are generally wrong.

Baldric · **Posted:** Sat May 14, 2011 12:59 pm

lol
I'm sure a warlock living the shattered kingdoms world would know which weapons were useful for which things.

I mean if you want to RP that your warlock is from 21st century earth and has never actually seen most types of melee weapons found in this game, then sure, go for it and make him an ignoramus.

Shattered Kingdoms

Useless Helpfile(s?) and List Subtype

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