Shattered Kingdoms

Sorry, but this has a change I've been also been meaning to suggest.

Game balancing is a tricky thing, getting a sweet spot is almost impossible in game design. When it comes to racial benefits, the pros and cons should always be subtle degrees, they should be noticeable, but they should never ever be crippling or overpowered. Infravision, sneak, hide, flight, fur hide, kick, so forth. These are all great to have, but they don't really set you on what your race should be, they are perks to have but it isn't something that will make or break your class.

Having two charms is something that is disproportionate where game balancing is concerned. It should not exist, think about it just as any game developer would, you have a race that can control two level 50 NPCs instead of one, the benefit of having that is too great and sets it apart from the rest of the races. There is no argument against it, sorry, no. Having all the drawbacks in the world does not justify you getting two NPCs over one on the other races, you could add a high int race that is blind, has only one leg, is terrible at taxes and can't get it up without viagra and that is still not reason enough for you to have more charm than the other races. You already have a perk of very high intelligence that facilitates the opening of gates and the buffs you can put on yourself and others. Deep-elf sorcerers shouldn't be a tribunal all on their own.

I will concede also however, that racial weaknesses should merit a looking at. As it stands, it is too much, especially for melee classes that get melted (cold iron shuriken) or when it is used in tandem with things like backstab. Tweak down the damage modifier to racial weaknesses, and you are fine.

Of course I've considered it. I'm also aware that save Ealuriel I'm the only successful deep-elf sorcerer that's played SK in the last couple of years, so why would I not chime in with my two cents when everyone from the outside looking in is trying to nerf my specific character?

Ealuriel was scary as mess, but her main move was Charm Person which has been nerfed to the same casting time as petrification and been removed from scrolls. That was a very good change. Was Ealuriel scary because deep-elf sorcerers are powerful? Heck yes, but moreso because -Syn is good.- Syn then rolled an elf warlock, and there was no resting for anyone in the Empire or North when she was online, and that was back when everyone was whining about how warlocks sucked. It's because she's a GOOD player.

I've spent a lot of time on Antiira learning the ins and outs of the sorcerer class, and I feel like I'm very familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the class, just like I was very familiar with the Hellion class on Turon: On Turon I routinely took groups of two or three people at a time, does that mean that MC hellions are overpowered? No, it just means that I utilized the strengths and weaknesses of my class better than my enemies: I feared Hagrel or Ghulmath alone on Turon much more than I feared groups of other people even, because they were GOOD players.

Sure, with Antiira I can steamroll groups that aren't prepared pretty effectively, but that's not because deep-elf sorcerers are overpowered: It's because I'm familiar with my class and I usually get the jump on people, and while I understand that this sounds haughty, I'm more experienced in PvP than some people I fight. I'm not saying this to insult other SK players personally, it's just that not everyone is on the same level of skill. There's a log of Algon's harlie merc running into Teron's inn and outright murdering four or so PCs without even a scratch: That doesn't mean that mercs are overpowered. It means that Algon's merc was better than all of them in that instance.

Look on the log site and tell me how many logs of Antiira winning are against Baba, Farine, or Ariya. There's a reason for that, and it's because while I have won fights against those characters (and lost my fair share), they're usually very close. It isn't my fault that the people I fight against don't choose the right battle plans or aren't prepared. For example, if I were to cast that awesome group blindness and damage spell against Ariya, Farine, or any other trulyl prepared opponent, it would be completely wasted because it would do zero damage.


tl;dr: If I was playing against Antiira, I wouldn't do it the same way that most of my enemies do.

As for putting reflex on my gear, I've already spent probably 30+ hours enchanting just the suit I'm wearing right now, and it does have a decent amount of reflex: Spending more time enchanting is not something I'm really that interested in doing, and from what I've observed would be very fruitless as far as dodging BoG is concerned.

I can't believe you just told me that sorcs aren't OP, and that you're just really good at SK, and all this talk about sorcs being OP is just a reaction to how much you've been owning a bunch of newbs. First of all, I'm the one who started this thread. I am definitely not responding to anything your character has done. I have not played this game since you created Antiira. Snuffles, Nightwing, and I aren't all sitting around going "HOLY CRAP THAT EDORAS GUY IS OWNING EVERYONE I GUESS HIS CLASS IS OP WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING." Get over yourself, dude. This thread wasn't made to single out your character and give him a nerf.

I've played sorcs who spent a huge amount of time polymorphed as delfs (with a wand). I've pked as a delf sorc. They’re OP. So are human sorcs. The fact is that NO PC warrior would stand a chance against Lathron + Losquaty or Lathron + Waish with the possible exception of an extremely well built hammer (and even then the best case scenario for the warrior is a draw). None whatsoever. Not if the sorc knew what he was doing. Throw on top of that the fact that the sorc has SO many options available to him in the form of wands/staves/scrolls and can scribe double petrification, cast sleep, zap etherealform, color spray, acid blast, and pretty much do whatever the hell he wants. Sorcs run this game. I didn’t need to see a couple logs of you beating up on a few newbs to know it.

Sorcerers are overpowered. Also if Syn didn't have access to the perks of her tribunal, her warlock would have been trash. She really had to work for the kills she got on Antiira, and in the one instance she threw tons of NPCs at your sorcerer, and had to run around to get more just to even the odds. I don't know why you don't just accept the fact like the rest of us have that the sorcerer class is overpowered.

Sorcerers are a glass cannon. I don't doubt the frailty of the class, or the fact that you're putting everything on the line every time you step out.

The point is that there is too much cannon, with about the right amount of glass.


No player should control the equivalent of two (or even three) barbarian NPCs, plus a pet, plus a guard, on top of still having the entire litany of SK's spell list available at their fingertips. It's stupid.


Tone it back down to one barbarian, and one pet, and all of a sudden your back on par with other classes (such as warlocks and scouts).

Edoras, please stop derailing this thread. It isn't about deep-elves, it's about sorcerers. If you feel that the weaknesses of deep-elves are too high, you can simple petition Dulrik to lessen them, or nerf BoG, however you should not use their weaknesses as justification for making sorcerers (I repeat sorcerers, not deep-elves) overpowered. Perhaps delf sorcerers and necros are glass cannons, but does the same apply to delf mercenaries or scouts or rogues? I think not.

It is my opinion that no class should stand above another, and even though perfect balance is impossible achieve, it doesn't take a genius to notice that some classes are far above others in their current format.

It's pointless to add various variables to this argument, because it is only about sorcerers, not tribunals, competence, preparation, etc. If you take a unaffiliated sorcerer and pit them against any other unaffiliated class, how would they fare? If we also assume that both parties are fully prepared, how many classes can you think of that can successfully defeat said sorcerer?

I say no because this game has boiled down into Antiiva VS everyone else. Maybe if that wasn't the case, maybe.

*edit* In terms of PVP.

I just noticed that two people voted for the Snuffles option. I have followers!

When we need an opinion on hoarding and being inactive then could you pipe up, Orius?

Right now most of the problem is that sorcs can directly harness what Builders have made and turn that power creep into a weapon. On the other side, Charm Person is simply a grief tool. Nowhere between is a semblance of enjoyability found for anyone other than the caster and her allies.

Forget limiting number of charmed persons. I think charm person should be scrapped entirely and sorcs should simply be able to conjure any one (or more) number of customizable pets from a la carte options.

Think of it like http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/power ... struct.htm instead of http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm

A sorc would choose the class and alignment of their new pet, and out pops a generic NPC with scaled level and alignment as specified by the sorc. Just off the top of my head, the pet level could scale to sorc level in the way that dominate victim level scales with caster level. These pets could be NPCs stored somewhere, allowing builders to custom-balance the spell on the fly without requiring a reboot of the game.

Basically this would mean that the sorc, an alleged support class, has the advantage of being able to grab a flexible pet with a spell and without money. Scouts have the advantage of not having as many counters to their pets, but sorcs would win with what they were supposed to have -- utility, not right-out superiority.

This would be a step towards making Charm Person more like Animate Dead, a far more consistent and predictable spell. Consistency and predictability are requirements of any balanced mechanic.