Shattered Kingdoms

I don't know, are classes that can't dispel/bolt/holy word getting some sort of offset for not having the ability to "easily" kill a necro?

It's hard to balance a game, but most of the voices that have been going around for years was that a necromancer didn't have to do much to kill someone, if now they just have to work just a little bit more to do it rather than o all bash, then whatever.

Most people justify that the necromancer should be able to kill damn well near anything just because of the effort(?) it takes them to raise an army.

Point is, the change needed to happen. Should you get anything to offset being able to control 8 undead vs 16? Sure. Here, have a QQookie.

There aren't even any real necromancers around any more. They're definitely not going to be worth playing after this. I agree there should have been an undead limit, but 8 is a little small.

I understand most nerfs come with the usual nervousness, but 8 doesn't seem to be a small number to me considering the game mechanics and party size. I mean, what would be a good number, 10? There is a log out there of 10 wraiths exploding Paddah (whom everyone considered a beast) in a about 5 or 6 rounds and he could only muster 1 kill, I believe most of the necromancer did was order all bash or order all berserk. I mean, in this case maybe (just maybe) the necromancer is going to be forced to use wands, or even a finger of death scroll, the humanity!

Yeah but when it takes 1 priest to ruin 2 hours of prep for a necro 8 all of a sudden does not sound like a whole lot. Getting weapons, haste, strength. Just to get destroyed with a single spell? Hrm.

Okay, wow. I have a lot to say in response to this thread.
1) Great work, Dulrik. I'm really impressed with the way you responded to player concerns and took action to create better game balance. Necros needed a nerf, warlocks needed a buff. This was done. Thank you!

2) With the new change, necros are not, BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION, underpowered. Jennbo, I know you have played a necro before, but you are not an authority on pk. You are completely mistaken. Anybody who thinks that necros are no longer worth playing is someone who has no idea what they're talking about. You could have taken animate dead away from necros entirely, and they still would have been balanced with the other classes. As it is, they are probably still the second strongest class after sorcs. They have powerful maledictions (even feeblemind), fear (very good spell), wands, scrolls, staves, FoD, scribe, and recharge. On top of that, they can still walk around with up to 8 animates and 2 controls. Those animates are GM barbs that can be strengthened, hasted, and equiped with 6/6 hunting/battle spears. They fury. They'll fly with you. Seriously. Not to mention the fact that two controls is all a necro ever really needed to be dominant in a majority of pvp situations. The idea that necros are suddenly WEAK because they only have the damage output of 8GM barbs (plus controls) is one of the most absurd things I've read on these forums. Honestly, I'm shocked that Edoras said that necros were done. He's not even right about deep-elf necros being done.

3) After reading the update, my immediate concern was the one brought up by Kin: the possibility of hoarding elite charms. It seems that maybe the change isn't working as intended, but I will emphasize that if this type of hoarding were allowed, it would, imo, be detrimental to the game. At the very least, sorcs should not be able to log off with any unique charmed NPC. I'm not sure how I feel about necros being able to keep their animated dead, either.

4) Charm (when used against PCs) still needs to be nerfed. Someone really needs to take a look at this spell. Of spells with saves, it might be the easiest to land. On top of that, it instantly wins any battle when it does land. It's casting time is longer than it used to be, but is still not long enough, given its rate of success and devastating effects.

I heart Aust and Baldric.

Necros in good hands are dangerous, as is any class, right eq/enchants/etc.

The issue I see is necros are always people's [REDACTED] because they are necros and get a high amount of PK while just leveling, just for being a necromancer. Getting the armies took time which was an offset. Paladin or a opposite aligned priest messed you up big time.

Necro's are supposed to be feared.

If they needed a whimp so bad, why is noone playing them?

For real. I'm not claiming to be an authority on PK, but I am claiming that yeah, no one will want to play necros now. No one IS playing them now.

Maybe the RP associated with necromancers isn't appealing to much of the pbase. Maybe the veterans don't find necromancers challenging enough to play. Maybe the majority of the pbase is incompetent and doesn't recognize how strong the necromancer class is. Anyone who doesn't play necro because they are "underpowered" is just wrong in their assessment of the class. This would have been even more true before this code change.

And yes, I understand that the necro has natural enemies and should be feared and it makes sense for necros to be strong. I agree. I feel that necros are STILL a cut above the other classes, however. I think this superiority is appropriate and justified.

I can think of no scenario in which baldric playing a necro would turn out badly.