Shattered Kingdoms

Ya know if you were gonna remove Halela from Marfik you should have at least changed the help file before you moved her because now you look like the biggest idot alive, it says right in there griffons are allowed in the church. Either you make it so griffons can be grey or you stop being a dumb*ss and let her back in. Her rp was sound. Klee was in the Marfik religion also and she was probably the only one in the religion besides Klee who actually preached their faith. This is probably one o the bigest bone head moves I've seen made, you put your foot in your mouth on this one Marfik your contridicting the help file buddy, maybe you need to re-read some things in the game before you opne your mouth again and try to kick someone out of the chruch, one of the onl ones who actually want dto do something with it

I think the big question here is IC versus OOC.


IC, Marfik is the God of Chaos. What he does SHOULD make us scratch our heads. There is nothing IC that prevents an Immortal from doing whatever they want, even against their own rule set. There could have been many other methods that would have been positive for both the faith and the person involved, but is that really Marfik IC?

OOC, WTF? The person was just following the rules. They did nothing wrong, so why are they being punished IC for what appears to be a total OOC flip of the RP of Marfik? Why not handle this transition of allowing only greybies in, in a better matter then just uninvesting those that are not?

So....was this an IC only action that we just need to RP "around" or was this an OOC action? Or was it a mixture of both? Some clarification from the IMM staff would be helpful, so the player base can move forward.

I forgot to add one thing to my previous post:

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Outrageous! Outrageous I tell you!

While my character never has and never will team with a deep-elf to go training or what have you, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with talking with people of the opposite alignment, trying to help them if that's your roleplay, and roleplaying your faith as opposed to the "omg it's a dark aura kill kill kill" response that some people seem to consider the correct roleplay.

Not all missionaries are crusaders. Not all Emissaries of Light or Dark carry a sword. I never saw Halela do anything that was contrary to her alignment -- that doesn't mean it didn't happen (I don't assume that the roleplay I see is the only roleplay that person does), but I never saw it.

I don't like this decision.

A lot of people forget that not every class has a way to detect auras, so some of the lighties you see paling around with darkies probably don't even have a clue the guy is a darkie and vice versa.

As for the removal of Halela from the faith, what were you thinking? First, Marfik, you must be completely oblivious to the role your God plays, and must have never taken the time to even read your own Gods help file.

Second, there is absolutely no reason for you to remove someone from the faith reguardless if you are changing policies with the religion or not. If someone is already RP'd into the faith, then they should stay till they delete, and the faith should just quit inviting griffons and the like at that point, but the people already in should be left alone.

...I was about to jump on the WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU MARFIK?! bandwagon, and then I thought...wait. No offense, Mundu, but the grain of salt here is rather large.

Any word from people actually involved?

P.S. Fully agree with Liri. If you read the help files, lighties are supposed to try to convert/heal/whatever and then purge the evil as a last resort.
P.P.S. My first real character was a griffon Sadalite who became HF. With deep-elves in the faith. Made for some rich interactions. (And frustrations, but who wants to take the easy way?)

As for alignment issues:



Although principled characters are typically paladins and the "MUST KILL ALL DARKIES RAWR" crowd there is room to RP with darkies. I have bolded the line that shows where you can RP to help reform them, and if they do happen to RP they are reformed in some way then why couldn't they pal around with a darkie once in a while? There was a darkie bard whos name I can't remember that I seen this happen with quite often.



I was going to bold some stuff in this one, but there is no point. This whole help file basically says that all though they focus on killing dark auras, lighties maybe hurt in the process, and that they are willing to side with almost anyone to help their cause. This leaves it open for them to work with the occasional dark aura, or grey if it is to help their own cause.

Thats just my take on the alignments, not that I'm right or anything. I think there is more of a racial RP issue out there now rather then alignment. Lighties can RP with darkies, but elves shouldn't be going around with dark-elves and so on.

I talked to the player of Halela OOC. She(he) is quietly angry and upset, and told me that Marfik pretty much told her(him) to either delete or take the uninduction. I can't imagine how awful that is to hear, after hours and hours of RP.

As far as alignment goes, there's other things to consider: my character is a lightie Druid HF of a grey religion. She HAS to take other people's feelings into consideration and be able to converse with all kinds of people (save necromancers) and tends to be very open-minded, while trying her best to be "good" herself. She doesn't necessarily expect everyone else to agree with her methods or her personality, and regularly has debates with people of opposite faiths, alignments, etc. She realizes deep-elves are inherently evil, but sees this as necessary for balance - because elves are inherently good.

Halela probably crossed the line less than other "lighties" like myself and others, and was a well-played scrupulous chaos character. Chaos seems like a pretty neutral concept that could easily be played in all kinds of alignments - except for dogmatic, principled, and aberrant.

In my opinion, making any religion "grey only" REALLY hinders RP.

umm thast pretty much BS.. Halela played her part well, I RP'd with her plenty and strongly KNOW that removing HER from said church is about as lame as it can get... I would like to hear Y this was so important!!!???

Thanks for clarifying, jennbo. Although I would far rather this be a YIM rumor turned into a hideous bonfire.

*sighs and leaps onto bandwagon*

I'm not much for criticizing the immies, privately or publicly, but this needs to be fixed for all the reasons cited and more. From my first interaction with her, Halela was a walking talking example of why griffons can|should be accepted within the Marfik faith.



I can't claim to have seen much from her, given my recent sabbatical. But what I saw, in addition to the foundation laid by help files and a history of aura leeway in grey faiths...

ICly, OOCly, however you look at it, bad move. Go pick on undeveloped characters of players who don't RP.
(edited for coherence)