Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:52 pm 
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The nerf bat kills this game.

So everyone, cry harder.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:55 pm 
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Nice. For the rest of the thread I'm just going to quote myself.

Enishi wrote:
Also, I have never died to taunt on my character nor was this in response to anybody else dying of taunt. I even mentioned I have a veteran level swash right now. So enough with the QQ arguments, please.

If you haven't noticed, this entire thread I have been advocating giving swashes new command skills or other buffs to make the boring class more interesting and extend their skill list, etc. Other people have made a handful of suggestions for buffing the class as well. However it's a little pointless to start proposing ideas about buffing and new skills without establishing what the state of taunt and swashes are right now. This thread is about taunt. If we can establish that swashes need new and interesting skills, as I've already said, there can be another thread after this one. That's a whole huge [REDACTED] ballpark that could easily be twice as long as this thread right here, but there's no point if we can't establish that it's needed.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:59 pm 
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
SK Character: Achernar
None of those other classes relies on such a short list for basically all of their capabilities. Even barbarians have track and butcher. This class has nothing special besides its unique power to do something no other class has. Two things. Trap someone in a room. Wield two weapons. Why is that so bad? Its not a guaranteed win. Someone will find a method of stopping the rampage of the swashbucklers.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:05 pm 
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I've never implied that a "rampage" was occurring.

Enishi wrote:
Furthermore the argument that "you don't see swashes flooding the game and ruining PK!" is another silly one. We have like 30 people on at a time and like 5 minor battles a week, maybe if we had 100-200 players we would be able to "observe trends" as being evidence of anything. As it stands, silly things that should be changed can exist in the game regardless of how many people are doing them. Gilgon regularly makes himself into the sole abuser of various inadequacies in the game, however that doesn't mean those things shouldn't be changed.


Enishi wrote:
I guess all I'm trying to say is this: the class needs work, as many will agree here, but I think taunt isn't "the answer." It's just what exists right now. All of these arguments that rely on swashes being a gimp class to justify taunt are focusing on the wrong thing. Swashes need something, but taunt, as a skill by itself existing in the mechanics of this game, is [REMOVED]. Swashbucklers could be a class that hits once a round with canes and has the hp pool of a sorc. It doesn't justify the introduction of a skill of this nature to any class, nor does it make an otherwise boring and arguably sub-par class anything but a still-boring one-trick tool. Don't just change taunt into something less, change swashbucklers. Make them into something more.

If there is anything unifying or agreed upon in this long [REDACTED] debate, it's the crappiness of swashbucklers as an interesting and powerful class.


It is -far and away- the most "guaranteed" method of killing anybody in the game right now.

Make them more special. Give them something REAL that actually provides them a unique character to the class rather than a singular skill that breaks the dynamic of PK which has existed for like 10 years. If you'd like to brainstorm just what those skills might be, we can do that in another thread.... I'd be more than happy to.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:13 pm 
Okay, I don't understand what is so hard to understand.

I will make it as simple as possible for everyone.

A single swashbuckler is no problem. The problem is a swashbuckler with buddy, or law NPC who can bash. You are completely stuck, unless you have the wands/scrolls skills, until your pet dies and then the friend bashes you, and EVEN if you DO break out of the taunt when you get bashed. How many people are going to last 4+ rounds against 2 warriors?

There is no noticeable difference in the taunt success rate at all no matter what situation you are in.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:37 pm 
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Achernar there is no counter to taunt for the majority of classes. So far after 2 years? with taunt the best the entire pbase has come up with is ethereal, teleport?, and lol..wimpy 100/disband. All of these methods also break the roleplay of taunt. If you have some better ideas please by all means share them.

Disregarding the fist, 1v1 a good swashbuckler only can be beat by other warriors and necromancers. All the other classes will not be able to land spells or melee the swashbucklers to death, that's including charms and tamed pets. Some of these classes can hope to get away with ethereal and it might not work, but at best that's all they can do. I think theirs a slim chance that a truly decked out sorc or priest could kill the swashbuckler but it would take the best scrolls in the game which are usually horded and off limits to the vast majority of the pbase -and- landing a bash on the swashbuckler to prevent them from quaffing heals.

If a good swashbuckler is grouped with say a mercenary, taunt is going to land very frequently due to the fact that the person they are fighting is most likely still in a group roughly the same size as the swashbucklers group due to charms/guards/pets (but even if they had a smaller group it would still have a good chance of landing), and there isn't really any chance of victory or escape. Essentially taunt means that you can't ever try to fight a group with a swashbuckler as a underdogs, because unlike fighting groups without swashbucklers, you will not get away.

Even in big group pk where both sides are roughly equal is it really fair that if one side has a swashbuckler and the other side loses, just by typing taunt xxxx at the start of a fight, casters and hybrids in the back rows are doomed to die?


Achernar, the fact of the matter is that nobody is going to find a suddenly find a method to stop the rampage of swashbucklers. There is no counter, a properly spelled swashbuckler with good resistances can fight any class other than warriors 1v1 and not only have a 99% chance of winning like mercs/barbs would, but also a 99% chance of killing their opponent. They are going to type taunt xxxx, and spam quaff heals and there's your fight.

I did find a method to stop the rampage of swashbucklers though, and that's through the change I proposed, whats wrong with that?


Last edited by Rial on Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:07 am
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Location: Canada
SK Character: Zarg
If you are deaf, can a swashbuckler's taunt affect you?

If the answer is no then since deafness is available as a spell to three classes (I think three if not two for sure). As well as one class through herbs as well as scrolls and potions then the majority of classes can resist taunt. If deaf cannot defend against taunt then I suggest that it should.

However there is really more to the game then beating the ever loving crap out of other players characters. If that is what you really want may I suggest something with graphics because lets face it your playing a text based game to PK people, how sad is that.

Also people, please stop publicly QQ every god forsaken skill, spell, scripted item, armor, weapon, charmy, tamable pet and tribunal guard. If you truly think you have been wronged then send a PM or e-mail to the imms.

I am sure I have QQ in the past about something being unfair however looking back at every skill and spell that has been "changed" to make the game "balanced" has made the game more and more undesirable to play. I probably was more upset at the time then anything.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Deafness is an extremely limited-to-find defense against taunt, which also cripples the character using it by making them fail half of their spells and not be able to hear their allies.

This thread is in the gameplay section, a section designed to discuss aspects of gameplay. Which is what I created this thread for: a discussion. Please take your "Go QQ" [REDACTED] to GD or something.

I'm not sure anybody can deny that my characters RP. It's what I play this game for, and not something 3-D. However, SK is where "ROLEPLAY AND TICTACS COLLIDE," so yes, Trexor... the dynamic of PK is also a concern in this game.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:03 pm 
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You know, taunt's effectiveness is the only thing that makes swashis worth playing.

Currently, taunt is almost fine. If you have to wimp it, I would suggest making it last for 1 minute on the first taunt, then 30 seconds on the second taunt with twice the chance to resist, then 15 seconds on the third taunt with three times the resistance, then it can't be used on the same character again for a long time.

This way it has a diminshing returns.

I really don't know why groups don't have their fighters deafened going into combat, it's not like it stops group chat or cabal chats or tells. Just toss a int mod on the casters behind the tank and the -int of taunt is nullified.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:50 am 
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SK Character: Achernar
"The rampage of swashbucklers" was pure sarcasm. I don't see any swashbucklers racking up the kills this thread spills in QQ ills.


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