Shattered Kingdoms

Don't try to hijack my thread. The subject is Aiding and Abetting. If you don't have anything to detail now, post when you have it thought out.

I like the "Aiding and Abetting" idea and many of the ideas. I do not like the "Accomplice" idea as stated. In real life, accomplices to a crime are guilty of the same crime even if they didn't actually "do it." There are even "accomplices after the fact."

These are relatively good ideas in and of themselves but I would rather have the peripheral chars have less trouble than the trouble-makers themselves. This would allow new players to still ease into the PK and law-breaking arena without full impact of the law. This would also allow older players to go PK-lite and law-breaker-lite and take less punishment. We don't need another group of "flashes in the pan" to arise out of this new law, deleting their master level priest because they wandered alone into the wrong place and don't want to wait the duration in jail. This all assumes "Aiding and Abetting" is a lesser crime.

As I said, I do not like the "accomplice" idea as stated. I do like an "accomplice" idea, though. For the purposes of the game, I suggest an accomplice is someone who takes part in the assaulting via melee or magic. This encompasses all group members and anyone outside the group who does any sort of attack in the process. Those in the group of any attackers who did not do any sort of attack would not be accomplices but would be aiding and abetting. Understand this is not the whole of "aiding and abetting" but a separation of "accomplice" and "aiding and abetting."

For definition purposes, I would consider a gate to a target or the summoning of the target as an accomplice act. For further clarification, gating to a target would include gating to anyone in the same room as the target. If you want to be sneaky and walk around with the target and let killers gate to you, the law can't see everything. Don't do anything else and you got away with your accomplice act--unless PCs can tie you to the act within the RP realm of the game.

Other than being a non-combatant within the group of people committing crimes, aiding and abetting would include giving anything to the criminal during commission or after the fact, while within the offended kingdom or any allied kingdom. Giving anything includes, but is not limited to, gear, weapons, coin, tools, beneficial magic, beneficial song.

After-the-fact aiding and abetting should only be reportable by law NPCs, tribunal members (PC) and allies of tribunal members (PC). Also, atf a+a should be a lesser crime than collaborative a+a.

I'm not certain how far off-topic I already went in a couple points, but I would also like to add in the idea of extradition between allies.

1)Nerina and Taslamar are allies.
2)You have committed crimes in Nerina to require 6 days, 12 hours in jail followed by execution.
3)Taslamar catches you and throws you in jail.
4)By extradition treaty (coded into ally status), Taslamar will hold you for 1/6 the time, or 1 day, 2 hours, while awaiting an extradition request. The execution part of the penalty is wholly disregarded in the allied kingdom.
5)Any Talon can approach the Peacekeeper judge to submit extradition papers and complete the extradition.
6)Upon logon, criminal and jail will be transmitted to the Talon member, along with length of time remaining to file papers.
7)Upon extradition, time served in Peacekeeper jail will count as time served in the Talon jail.
If the entire time awaiting extradition is served without extradition, the Peacekeepers will free you and you will no longer be jailed for those crimes in Taslamar.
9)All time, gear, coin penalties Zhenshi levees will be followed by the 1/6 rule, but execution and maiming penalties will be ignored. So, if Zhenshi only wants to execute you, Taslamar will "capture and release" you, holding their extradition treaty met in this event.

Okay, now that most people have already quit reading my response, I'll let the rest of you quit reading it.

When I said accomplice, I meant to saying willing accomplice. In game terms, they enter in any command that does not include: socials, leave, quit, and other similar commands. So, if they do any spell that affects anything but themselves, they should be charged with the same crime as the highest crime committed in the group.

Also, to keep ahead of the cheaters, make the highest crime follow them even if they flee, run, and quit before the battle is over.

I would prefer "accomplices" who only "aid and abet" to remain under the "aid and abet" laws, those "accomplices" being the healers and suchlike. They, while only healing and not hurting, are involved in PK-lite and law-breaking-lite. My desire is to have them face law-lite as a consequence.

Edit: I agree with your "cheaters" clause insofar as it is applied to my parameters and not your more severe parameters.

The most important thing to be implemented here is the ability for tribunal leaders to write a short paragraph to their immortal and ask for a given player to be banished, even if that player has been repeatedly turning themselves in. It is a non-coded fix to a problem that will _still be abused_ after these changes.

Why make the game less fun by adding more jail time? Seems this is another step in seeing what can be done with the code at a sacrifice to fun. Honestly while we're at it give laws to Teron.

The point is not to add more jail time, infact - the ideal situation for most players would be to simply have deathmark be returned and to avoid jail time.

Do not get me wrong Dulrik, you have a nice game and all but think about it, you are about to start down on a very slippery slope.

I rarely check the outlaw boards when I play. You are saying if I see some bleeding guy, and feel like healing them I have to check the outlaw board first just to make sure it ok? What about the followers of the god of healing? Will they be locked up for doing something that they feel is good to do in the eyes of their god? Bounty NPCs, law NPCs, banishment... isn’t that enough? Sometimes the PC guards of the kingdom will actively hunt lawbreakers in other kingdoms and usually get away with it because everyone wants to keep the peace or alliance.

Now you are saying if you heal or aid criminals through spells you to will go on the outlaw list? Why stop there, why not make it so that if you give a weapon, herb, armor, vial, scroll you get on this outlaw list as well? Will NPC's go to jail? I mean they can sell items to people who are outlawed in other kingdoms and heal them to boot.

This paragraph to describe an individual who aids an outlaw? This will not go well; I mean healers will have to ask someone before they bleed to death, are you wanted in any of the kingdoms? What happens if they lie? Will the healer still go to jail? What about bards and persuade? Will the target that was persuaded be outlawed or will the bard? Now unless you are going to add a new status effect like (hidden) or (invs) that says (outlaw) then this will start to be fair. How is a person to know all the outlaw people?

I know you think this an interesting idea, adding more realism. However it is a game, games are meant to be fun not something where you have to remember every little detail to play. Eventually everyone will want to join a tribunal because they go out and kill who they in their kingdom without ANY repercussions.

Also why is it bad if you surrender to the law? So you abuse this slightly by having all you are things and coin in the back put into a safe place. You have to be the biggest jerk to be really angry about this. So you didn't get the kill. They are serving their time; they are out of you are hair for xxx amount of time.

What I want to see before we start throwing people in jail for healing or aiding criminals is more things for the actual people that break the law. For example

- If you are killed by a tribunal PC or a bounty NPC then you crimes are wiped clean for that kingdom

- 1st time jail people serve ¼ their time. After that you have to stay the full time PLUS the time you were let out of. For example you have 40 hours first time. You serve 10, you get out, next time even if it’s a minor crime you are in there for the minor crime time and 40 hours.

-People that try to break others out of jail are charged with the same amount of time that was remaining on the person in jail IF they fail.

-Books

-If you commit suicide in jail you can only come back through a god (like final strike).

I would just limit it to group mates being responsible for what each other do. Even if someone is trying to avoid being outlawed by staying outside the group, it makes them vulnerable.

I was trying to figure out what this meant. Is it suggesting that there should be books for people to read in jail? That could be a good way for people to learn more about the history of the game...