Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:14 am 
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Sypher wrote:
Exactly! Bash is pretty much cruise control to victory, and as it stands a bashed swashy really doesn't stand much of a chance in combat vs a merc/barb. This gives the swashy a viable chance.


I conceptually agree, but lets see if removing the xtra dmg from being bashed/tripped will fix this dilemma. If it doesn't, I would support yours if you can find other tactical things that a merc/barb can do while in combat.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:28 am 
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Sure, I agree that the bash change may balance the playing field a bit, we'll wait and see.

As for other tactically sound things a warrior could do aside from bash, there's always like disarm, and blitzkrieg, and headbutt...and bite...


Last edited by Sypher on Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 am 
Um, I don't see how anybody actually thinks the bash damage modifier getting removed is going to reduce how often bash is used? People are still going to run around bashing all fight long, they just won't be doing as much damage in melee, but that doesn't really matter, instead of killing you in one round, I'll kill you in two!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:56 am 
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It will also mean that you'll need to use more bashes to win which increases the chance that you'll miss a bash.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:58 am 
Which doesn't matter...People are still going to spam bash. And actually bashing lags you almost as much as getting bashed does anyways, hell, if anything, missing a bash is getting changed so that it's not that much of a bad thing, you won't take extra damage when you miss a bash.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:39 am 
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Problem is, you would practically need another swash to keep a swash there. A swash is quite enduring and wouldn't have many problems getting out of dodge if this skill was to be implemented. I actually think that it is too powerful, considering the primus motor of pk is loot.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:40 am 
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Sypher wrote:
Sure, I agree that the bash change may balance the playing field a bit, we'll wait and see.

As for other tactically sound things a warrior could do aside from bash, there's always like disarm, and blitzkrieg, and headbutt...and bite...


Blitzkreig just blows unless you are leveling. Headbutt is used inbetween bashes already, and disarm is a joke usually. I don't think I have ever been disarmed in PvP.


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 Post subject: Re: [Idea] Feint
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:17 am 
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Sypher wrote:
Swashbucklers by their nature are extremely nimble blade wielders, capable of superior swordplay they are extremely difficult to land blows on thanks to their superior evasion tactics.

I propose a new skill for swashbucklers, trainable at around veteran/expert level called Feint. As stated above, swashbucklers are extremely nimble swordsman, and as such should be very difficult to keep tripped or bashed(moreso than they are now).

Feint would basically just be a passive skill which is in practical purposes an enhanced dodge, that only work on skills such as Gore/Bash/Trip. Skills designed to keep enemies on the ground, lagged out. The chance to successfully feint would obviously be based on the swashbucklers dexterity vs his opponents dexterity(or perhaps even intelligence). A successful feint would enable the swashbuckler to easily avoid a bash or trip or gore aimed at the swashbuckler, and act as a failed trip/bash/gore for the swashbucklers opponent.

Although I believe what I'm stating is easily understandable, the visuals seemed to be a big success so I'll demonstrate again.

P.o.V = Mercenary
Valthanos = Swashbuckler

Successful Feint

Code:
bash valthanos
Valthanos feints an easily sidesteps your bash!
You fall flat on your face!

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
<Insert round 1 of bash lag>

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
<Insert round 2 of bash lag>

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
<Insert round 3 of bash lag>

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
stand
You stop resting and stand up.

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
trip valthanos
Valthanos feints and you miss your trip completely!
You lose your balance and fall on your face!

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
<insert round 1 of trip lag>

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
<insert round 2 of trip lag>

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
<insert round 3 of trip lag>

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
stand
You stop resting and stand up.

[HP: 100%] [ME: 100%] [PE: 100%]
trip valthanos
Valthanos feints and you miss your trip completely!
You quickly regain your balance.


So basically, a successful feint as demonstrated allows the swashbuckler to avoid trips/bashes and in the case of bash the opponent falls on his/her face and is lagged three rounds, just like a normal missed bash. In the case of trip, you can have either the critical misses, in which the person attempting trip fails, and is lagged three rounds, or you can have the non-critical misses, in which the trip fails, but the person attempting to trip is only lagged one round.

A failed feint would obviously result in the swashbuckler being bashed/tripped.

I've always been of the opinion that swashbucklers were lacking in comparison to mercenaries, and even barbarians to a slight extent. They're still competative usually, but when a mercenary/barbarian in stellar gear comes along, swashbucklers just get schooled hard.

Feint I think would even the playing field significantly, having a very high chance to avoid trip/bash/gore enables the swashbuckler to almost always stay on his feet and use his abilities such as dirt/disarm/taunt/kick in an attempt to swing the battle in his/her favor. It also allows them the liberty of quaffing flasks/herbs regularly. Another reason I think such an ability would be highly useful, is because swashbucklers are the only melee class that can't afford the luxury of standing behind a pet while still dealing damage. In order for swashbucklers to deal any effective damage at all they have to be in the front row, and always in danger of being bashed/tripped. This ability would allow them to do so with a far greater chance of survival.

Thoughts, questions, comments?


Thoughts, questions, comments? Since you've invited us to discuss this I'll chip in my two cents. Unfortunately I can almost guarentee you won't like what I have to say.

First of all, Sypher, you've come up with an excellent skill. A very very good one. Unfortunately you've named it wrong. It shouldn't be called Feint. A feint is a fake strike that decieves and opponent into opening himself for an attack, since you are not attacking but simply dodging I don't think this is a feint. It's like enhanced dodge.

Dictionary wrote:
1. a movement made in order to deceive an adversary; an attack aimed at one place or point merely as a distraction from the real place or point of attack: military feints; the feints of a skilled fencer.


Okay? So if you want to give swashbucklers the Feint Skill, what it should be is an active skill that works inbetween rounds to give the swashbuckler one attack that can not be parried, e-parried, or shield blocked. But it can be dodged or just plain old miss because of good armor + dex and stuff. That's what Feint should be.

What you have is a skill that I like and that I would call Preternatural Instinct. It should be a barbarian skill. They move with animal like instincts. They have Alertness, counterstrike, and they should have this skill. They can get out of the way of a bash like a jungle cat, they can avoid a trip like a mongoose, they can evade a gore like no other.

This skill rocks, and it should be for barbarians.

As for Feint, I think a Feint skill would help swashbucklers. It could work in one of two ways. 1st Feint could put people off guard as a passive skill and give the swashbuckler an increased chance to disarm an oppenent. Or 2 Feint could do as I stated above. It would work like blitz in between rounds but only on one foe. It would negate all parry/eparry/shield blocking skills and just give you a nice clean hard to avoid hit. Something like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:44 am 
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swashbucklers don't need any improving. The last one I played didn't have the bash skill but he was a spectacular tank and damage dealer regardless.

the only thing I could see swashbucklers getting at this point is (craft eyepatch) and (craft pirate ship)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:47 am 
:lol:

Something needs to be done with taunt I think, or is it just me? The skill seems pretty worthless now.


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