Shattered Kingdoms

The fight was lost as soon as you said no-dachi and sai. It isn't a terrible combo for leveling, really, but that's about it.

My personal experiences have me siding with Sypher on this one. The spec. he chose, though, is a rather powerful one. There is someone running around with the same one now that does an insane amount of damage. The only real defense to it is to have an insanely good offense. And weapons are where it is at for swashies. Yes, having good AC armor with high enchants helps, but the bread and butter of a swashie comes down to the weapons they choose and whether or not they have their stats in order (which isn't hard at all.) No amount of decent armor is going to save a swashi from bringing trash weapons to the fight.

The way bash and trip works, it can also come down to who is the quickest in getting those skills off. Spells are obviously another factor, but in a dry battle between two equally equipped characters, I would say the merc. would win three out of five battles so long as they have specced in something pretty accurate. They won't be overwhelming victories, however.

I think swashies are fine without blitz. If you wanted to give it to them, it might make them a bit more fun/complicated in the middle of battles, but it also might be a bit much, considering that they can, indeed, do damage to anyone hitting them in melee already. I'm honestly curious to see just how badly a swashie could rip apart hordes of NPCs/pcs when healed. I'd love to play with it, if even for a bit.

Hmm, okay. Is blitzkrieg ever going to get added to swashbucklers?

No. C'mon, let's be real. This isn't double-thrust-low, folks (R.A. Salvatore).

99% positive if any changes are ever made they will be to tactically change blitz in some way. No renaming the skill, no removing it, no boosting it.

I've pointed out a reason why it is valuable, especially in the close merc v. swash fight. That was the question at the beginning of the thread. Another reason is because it maximizes PvE damage/XP without having to so heavily rely on spell/script refresh for bashing. Yes, the blitzkrieg skill does significant damage when mastered and wielding a proper weapon.

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It's undisputed that for most people being an awesome swashbuckler is a lot easier than being an awesome mercenary. I guess if anyone's experiences are different it can be chalked it up to player skill differences, which makes sense. Especially if the player of the swashbuckler isn't any good.

Well Marfik, looks like we've discovered your secret alter ego.

Naw, it just makes sense in the color scheme. Otherwise...pink? Yeah, Mr. Utility Belt, go figure.

I simply do not think that is true. Parry isn't even based on the type of weapon that you're using. Only a handful of weapons are useful against swashbucklers, all the others pretty much play into their area of expertise.

My last swashbuckler was a beastly tank. I can only think of another Fist shaman that is around currently that is on par with how well he did his job.

I simply don't believe that swashbucklers are inferior to mercenaries or barbarians. In the hands of a capable player they are absolutely devastating.

Sorry for a lull in the debate, went to go play poker with some friends, and I hope you take it as such, I'm really not trying to flame or anything, just have an intelligent discussion.

No the scenarios were not live, with spirit disorientation it's really impossible to test in live combat, and rarely does a gem like Lothar come along who you can gank 4-5 times a day to test things out. However, I find duels between melee classes to be fairly accurate representations of fair combat, which is what we're talking about here, straight melee combat, given that both sides are affected by the 25% "stun wall".

Also, everyone can get spellups, so I think it really makes it a moot point whether you test with them or not. Sure a swashy can haste and GS up for 25str/dex, but so can any merc.

As far as the point of mercs being overall superior, I'm glad we at least see eye to eye on that. I'm simply saying that even in a 1v1 situations at worst I view mercs as no worse than swashbucklers, and at best, in my experiences a well played merc will win probably 70% of the battles with an equally geared merc. Are they close? Certainly, I almost never had a battle with Ghustaph or any other very well geared swashy were we both didn't at least hit the 25% barrier, but in 3/4ths of them the merc comes out on top.

That's just not the way it should be in my opinion. Mercs shouldn't be better than swashbucklers in straight up combat, the swashy should mop the floor with them 8 times out of 10, that is after all what the class is MEANT to do. They are THE melee combat specialists, that's all they can do, there's no reason another class who has the advantage of reach, and very effective ranged weaponry, plus several group benefiting skills should even come CLOSE to standing toe to toe with a swashy. Even if I thought that swashies did win slightly more than mercs in 1v1 situations, I still wouldn't be satisfied with that, mercs just have so many more advantages.

So really that brings us back to the original subject. Mercs don't use blitzkreig unless they're just toying around. They either bash, trip, dirt, or aren't using a weapon capable of it. Swashies on the other hand would have the time and the want in combat to make effective use of it just as the skill is. It'd make them a bit more valuable in group combat, they might not be able to hit healers or other squishy casters, but they can certainly taunt them to keep them in place, and then go to town blitzing down the front row while the casters can't heal.

[REDACTED] I just realized it, but that's an even better point! Swashies are also the only class that can FORCE people to attack them. In order to use blitz you must be the one being attacked. The more I talk about this the more great reasons I keep on comming up with for swashies to have blitzkrieg as it is, or even slightly improved.

They definately need a boost in solo and group PK situations, giving them blitz would be a start because they can make infinately more use of it than any other class in the game can. Even then I think they could use something extra, but it just makes perfect sense for swashies to have blitz, and trust me having played a merc, merc's won't miss it one bit.

I never mentioned Barbarians at all. Sure swashies are beastly tanks, but when faced with an equally beastly merc, in my experiences they lose. Like I said the merc has to be using a very accurate weapon so he doesn't get the [REDACTED] riposted out of him, but if the merc has one, it's at the least going to be very close, and I've seen and been in enough fights as both a swashy and a merc to believe that mercs hold the advantage.

As for the sword thing I guess with the implementation of accuracy classes no longer parry weapons that they are familiar with better than those that they don't? Either way if anything that further reinforces my point, since there are in that case several very accurate swords that could be used to great effect as well.

Err...I truely don't understand what you're trying to say here. Not trying to be an [REDACTED] but could you clarify slightly?

swashbucklers get finesse, which make them beasts.

Mercs kind of lose their advantage when facing a swashbuckler.

*facepalm*

I realize they have several wonderful skills, I just don't think that tops them off. Mercs will of course have a tougher time in melee combat with a swashy than say a Barbarian or what-have-you. But the point is that a well geared competent mercenary can still go toe to toe with an equally geared and skilled swashbuckler and come out on top many times. I just don't think that should happen, given all the other advantages mercs have over swashbucklers when in group combat or fighting non melee classes.