Shattered Kingdoms

(spawned by the eparry thread, to make it more specific)

I think what rogues really need are ways to circumvent law.

There's no real reason in playing an assasin-type character when 9/10 times you'll get caught by one NPC or the other.

My suggestion would be a rogue/bard skill named 'Subterfuge'

By bribing the right people, disguising into someone else, spreading false rumors, making use of their fast-talk, rogues/bards should be able to confuse local authorities into not realizing they're lawbreakers. Obviously this skill should be charisma-based, and should drain some money from the player's account to reflect the bribes.

Just to catch some comments in advance, I know that in some cities, bribery seems unlikely. It's not like subterfuge is used to bribe the paladin, however. Just some people with influence that can get the hands on the judge's paperwork, replace the lawbreakers sketch with another, and so on.

How it could work:
Character uses the skill along with disguise to pass as an inconspicuous fellow. This means he needs to disarm himself, and lower the chances anyone would have of suspecting him. His equipment is replaced by the equivalent of a NPC (a wizard's garb or whatever is more fitting) and for so long as he does not wear a weapon, wear armor, or do something extravagant, he is hidden from authorities. Should someone attack him while he's hiding this way, he doesnt have the time to wear his armor and fight. However, should he initiate the attack, the character pulls his fake clothes off, revealing his normal equipment with a message 'X breaks his subterfuge!' or whatnot, and then is susceptible to law again. He is then also able to make use of his rogue/bard skills again.

Just a thought.

This should cover both the 'OMG I WANT NINJAZ' requests too, but the general idea is to get some effective way of 'spying' or assassinating in SK

Having to pay large bribes to avoid jail time seems like a pretty good and probably balanced skill. The money could go to help the local economy, so it's not like the tribunal is getting completely shafted...

I dont like it. How about a technique that lets them not counter an attack but rather dodge it and knock the attacker off balance? Giving them time to get the hell out.

Sounds interesting, but its not the point of the thread. Maybe make a new one
The way you said it, it sounds like the only reason you don't like this is because you'd like something else instead.

Back on topic: It's not about avoiding jailtime, its about being able to slip past guards and such.

Still, there should be some limitations to this in order for players not to be further distanced from cities. It seems as if inns are the best place to spark or find RP, so a lot of ppl tend to stay there. Others avoid it because they're afraid someone might get them there. Making them feel more insecure by having them know that even outlaws can get to them there may make things worse.

I'd suggest adding some impressively notorious, powerful NPCs inside inns :p

Id like to think of it as an advanced Disguise. Like an automatic thing?

Actually, don't make it automatic. It is a skill check just like anyother. If they fail the check, they have to pay a bribery fine.

Bribary fine? Less you pay 1 platinum for 45 counts of murder, I think its alittle off the point.

Rogues are fine! Stop trying to change them.

Focus on the classes that NEED the help.

I can't think of a class that needs more diversity in their incredibly stale skillset than the rogue. Look at their list of unique skills:

peek
steal
(dual) backstab
hamstring
circle stab

Two of those cannot be used in straight combat. Backstab is only an opener, and is primarily a tool for ganking low-hp enemies.

Their skillset does not reflect the nature of the class when they have no tactical superiority over a halfling <insert class>, and balance-wise, they are inferior to every other melee class in direct combat. As support, they can deal moderate damage in a small group, but offer very little utility in larger groups - they don't have the survivability to stand in the front row (compared to a mercenary, barbarian, shaman, paladin, or hellion), but they lose half of their damage when they can only circle stab/hamstring, relegating them to a backup role.

No, they're not worthless, and I'm sure somebody will talk about how gimpy the players are for not recognizing how elite the class is, because that's what always happens in a discussion about class balance.

edit: and before someone brings up the [REDACTED] argument about scrolls, access to another class' skillset does not make up for the shortcomings of the original class. Priests, sorcerors, necromancers, and bards all get scrolls - but triple harm and triple fod aren't what we cite as their primary strengths.