Shattered Kingdoms

Yeah, I got eaten alive by a chain lightning last month. It was much more effective than I expected against the undead.

Nothing in the diabolic helpfile suggests you must betray your friends. While that sort of interpretation is a fine way to play the alignment, it isn't necessary.

Ive not been able to play SK for over a month now due to a broken bone in my hand typing is not good for that kind of thing.

Losing all your undead does not make a necromancer die it puts them in a high risk. For every one of those I win spells there is a counter a necromancer can get easy enough. In fact a necromancer is more likely to be able to get the counter to all of those skills/spells. Do not forget the simple counter that necromancers have against all these attacks. Killing the person before they can do them via a scroll of FoD.

Yes a necromancer is far from the amazing PK they use to control. Summon got wimped animate got wimped, control got buffed (wait I was meant to be talking down necromancers). Still One on One I would put necromancer at the top of the food chain. Two on one I would still bet on a good necromancer. Three on one A good necromancer would get fair odds and its in his favor to bring at least one of the foes down. Four or more vs one necromancer the necromancer should be losing but dieing I wouldnt bet on it.

The reason I do not play a necromancer is not because they suck at PK but because I dislike the effort you need to put in and constantly be on the ball. That is not the kind of game I play I am far to lazy to bother doing it. I also dislike playing evil for that same reason you need to keep your guard up against betrayal.

Last time I played a necromancer I found they where one of the easiest classes to level. One of the easiest classes to get items. The draw back was you needed to stay logged on for more time than I normally do to make use of this ease at lower levels. Then again I am one of the few people who makes use of the over abundant items in the north newbie school which can level you well into apprentice if you buy a few sacks.

These two lines especially taken together mean this: The diabolic gains no emotional benefit from friendship, unless plotting to ruin that friend in one way or another, in which case it isn't friendship at all, is it?. They also have no rational, predictable manner in which they deal with people. They will act the friend one day, and for no reason fathomable by anyone but the diabolic themself will destroy/jloot their "best friend" the next.

Silmar, you're still wrong, and you've provided the reasons for that in your own post: YOU DON'T AND WON'T PLAY A NECROMANCER. Not only that, is you've gone a fair way to proving the point of your opponents in this discussion: YOU DON'T AND WON'T PLAY A NECROMANCER BECAUSE OF THE CODED DRAWBACKS.

Let's set one thing straight, Silmar. A lone necromancer who until, say, one combat round ago had all his concentration/ME burned up on control undead and animate (because control undead has a HUGE per-tick ME cost), who now finds himself completely undefended and quite possibly being attacked by his own aggro pets with hugely powerful glow scripts and bashing, is M-E-A-T meat. This is especially true when you consider that if the necromancer is actually being hunted or engaged willfully, it's against at least a group of three or four. The instances of a lone character going up against a necro are rare in the extreme unless you're talking about the necromancer jumping said lone character by surprise. Hell, Alshainites will run for cover until they have help instead of meeting up with a lone necro, Alshainite paladins that people consider exemplary of the faith no less.

You constantly return to scrolls as if there were an even decent number of moderate strength scrolls out there. There aren't. The vast, vast majority of scrolls available to anyone are trash strength, and will bounce off even unenchanted kits unless you get lucky, and you better get lucky the first time considering recite lag. These uber scrolls you expect necromancers to save themselves with are in such a huge minority that it really just shows you have no idea what you're talking about when you suggest them. Also, when some can order a law NPC to cast HW, then walk into the room so that it goes off immediately, your wonderful, amazing, super scrolls of FoD are going to mean exactly jack and [REDACTED].

If a necromancer actually gets left alone to level, yes, they're pretty easy to level. Here's why they aren't in practice: leveling zone patrolers. They'll take one look at your cloth armor, see one utterance of "qkadagz dies" or one zombie and you're dead. Doesn't matter what level, doesn't even usually come with a decent amount of RP. Just smoked, and they're completely justified in doing so because of the fact that necromancers are coded to be hated by the majority of factions/people....Which, incidentally, happens to be the same reason they need to be individually more powerful than most if not all classes.

I had no trouble going under the radar training a necromancer. It helps to avoid public areas and to be very careful about where you travel with undead.

I didn't say it wasn't possible, but it has it's own special set of drawbacks that no other class has, including a hardcoded reason for damn near everyone to gank you and do a spit emote as the only RP if they see you leveling.

I fail to see how saying I am too lazy to play a necromancer proves the point they need to be made more powerful.

Scribe a double or triple scroll of FoD and see how effective it can be used. A sleep staff or any other number of magical items a necromancer can use (to get around feeble mind a scroll of animate will cover you). If a HW goes off and removes most of your undead. Which if its a law NPC I have a nice little chuckle because PC controlled law NPC HWs simply do not do this. You can always recite/quaff a word of recall Thats not mentioning the at least one other scripted word of recall item which I believe is unlimited I know of that is dark aura only.

A necromancer also doesnt even have to rely on undead to guard them a simple pet in the mix will keep a necromancer alive from all the woes of having their undead dispelled long enough to find safety (there are other options as well they can use). If scrolls and wands are so useless why does the necromancer have to worry about them killing him. Feeble mind is a necro only spell.

I win spells/skills are ones that kill you. So far all the I win spells/skills that single out necromancers more so than any other class are not I win but I have a tactical advantage now you must retreat and regroup.

Back to Diabolic alignment the key word is CAN in the second quote. Harming others for their own entertainment does not mean you have to hurt friends. Of cause hurt does not always mean kill. Another key point is that you dont have to do it yourself. The main char in death note shows how a truly diabolical person can be nice while achieving his goals.

Perhaps Necromancers should be given cheese rather than journey bread when they are created considering how much wining will they will do.

Silmar, there are no necros. So, no one to give cheese to.

Oh, and -you- try scribing triple FoD scrolls. Or for that matter, double. They still suck [REDACTED]. Only a GM FoD with 14 art is worth a damn. -Everyone- has fort. It's the easiest to get.



Yes they do. They most definitely do. That's the current I win tactic most favored. O all c 'holy word' c 'holy word' and bam the necro dies.

Did you also know bolt of glory prevents recall and necros are susceptible to it? Yeah, and worse yet, unlike a hellion or a priest, they have no real way to defend against getting bolted, the paladin moving a room away and crossbowing/flamestriking them to death a room away with no repercussions.

And just as you're so quick to point out, feeblemind isn't a necro only spell, just like 'ethereal' isn't a sorc only spell. There are tons of overpowered wands and scrolls. Fail.

I love how you're all "Well, you can always just run away like a [REDACTED]!!!" to everything, but you're forgetting: the necro has to win sometimes too, silly. He can't always be instantly ready to run. Why the -HELL- would you play a class that always had to run from every other class, be hated, and have huge prep time?

Yeah. I thought not.

Here's a judge of how to tell if a class is underpowered:

I refuse to play it.
Ardith deletes from that class and immediately chooses another that doesn't have to rely on it.
No one ever rolls the class anymore.
The immstaff as a whole for the most part agrees that necros are terrible.
Did I mention no one plays them?

I've never used more than 6-7 undead in the life of my necro, so it wouldn't get wimped...I guess that wasn't enough.
I blaim those necros who did and ofcourse those who whinned once more. Grats, you've killed a whole class.

As necros stand, they utterly suck.
They were designed to be the most powerful class and the hardest to play at the same time. I won't even start on their vulnerabilities and the ways to utterly annihilate them in a snap of a finger...You either know and if you don't, you don't need to.

On the other hand, if you spend a tremendous amount of time the result will be a force to be reckoned...At least used to.

With time, the constant whinning cause the class to be slowly wimped and wimped and wimped. That happened slowly by changing little things, here and there... Finally the drastic code change caused the class to be not-fun-to-play just because the trouble you go through doesn't produce the expected/desired results.

The suggestions Grakus has posted are very similar to what myself have suggested in the past in several occasions.

1. Max number of undead animated depending on lvl of necro and power of the animated.

2. No magic areas/dispel magic should not affect animates

3. Cancellation should NOT affect controls for many reasons and if it does, it should be a caster lvl check between the two casters.

4. The wimping of the undead should stop once and for all. Those who contribute their little part, thinking this will balance the game more...MUST reconsider. This should be stopped by the order of Dulrik himself, players and immortals alike. It only causes balance on a two dimensional axis and this is not what SK needs. It will eventually end up as a game of chess without the knights, where everything can be calculated and ofcourse less interesting than checkers.


If you think back for a moment and compare the power of Lord Valroch or the sessprian ghouls back in time and now, you'll realise why 'control undead' isn't that interesting and by boosting that skill won't ever compensate for the loss of 'animate dead' spell.

I really doubt people do not play necromancers due to lack of power, but for two other reasons. The insane amount of time to prepare an attack, being the first. The second is that people would rather play a class that they do not wish to get killed the moment they are suspected to be, or found out to be, a necromancer. I personally see no reason to have them changed at the moment. If anything, it is centaurs, as some have been badgering about getting changed, as well as the giant warlock.

If something like that were to be implemented for a necromancer, I could easily see it spilling over into other classes. Their deity granting power holding sanctuary, bless and magical vestment for priests. Charms and spell wards for sorcerers. Spirit related spells for shamans. Elemental spells for warlocks. Then the fighting and adventuring classes would feel left out and be wanting something more to compensate.

I completely disagree with the idea that cancellation/dispel/non-magic rooms do not affect undead. Are you out of your minds? That would be both irrational and OP.