Shattered Kingdoms

Griffons != Protoss.

Griffons are a race that have the natural disadvantage of not being able to wear armor. That's why they're griffons. Sheesh. A human will never be as good as an elf when it comes to magic. Deep-elves have natural weakness to light. Griffons cannot wear much armor, and so they suffer for it.

They also have claws that can rip through most tanso steel. Humans don't.

They get a natural +6 attribute points. No other race gets that.

They can fly, and they're immune to disease.

If you want to increase your MP/MR, try, I dunno, interacting with another character? Find a means to have the spell 'shield' effect. It is not hard to find gear and have it enchanted above 5 MP. I remember enchanting mithril boots for Zavier which had over 13 MP, and every other piece was at least 8 or 9. Get a bard to help. It'll be good RP.

No race is perfect, nor should it be, alone. This fact sparks RP and drives players to complement one another's builds.

The fact you're playing a griffon now wouldn't particularly affect your flawed logic, now would it?

In closing, Thuban made me snicker.

I'm not buying this argument that griffons are great naked. Sure they are, but how much of the game do you spend naked? (Or shouldn't I ask? ) Certainly in the large group PvP Dulrik favors, almost everyone is decently prepared.



There's no doubt the race has great advantages. The problem is that at high level it has greater disadvantages. Play one and see. Or just consider how few griffons there are, and mostly first-timers at that. Most of the distinguished griffon PKers of the past were using things that no longer exist. (Old Spirit Aura+old shield, Fist+griffon combat/size, or gas immunity vs. guardians)

OVT's proposal of innate saves strikes me as overkill; such magic is a core griffon weakness. But do you really begrudge the typical griffon +4 or +6 magic protection? Shield is nice for griffons, but I assure you it doesn't turn them into juggernauts.



I'm afraid I don't understand the reference. But I believe craft is IC enough. If you take a look at Mercedes Lackey's books, you do see fighting griffons using magic to augment their natural abilities.

Granted, we've been moving away from griffons being innately magical, but I don't think that's worth keeping. Indeed, I consider it an admission that unlike necromancers, griffons can't hack the IC pressure of being hunted.

Flaw the logic or give me a keener understanding.

Whats your excuse for never having played one?

Protoss are from StarCraft (real-time-strategy from 1998). They were a race with natural energy shields that you could upgrade. The point Thuban's making is that griffons aren't cybernetic/bionic/evolutionary, even if they're magical.

No one plays griffons because they age-tick fast and die of old age before most other races have had their second age-tick.

If you want to give griffons anything, do this: give them a natural bonus to MP that amounts to about 1 MP per slot at creation, 2 around mentor, and 3 at GM, for any slot that isn't covered, so a naked griffon has around 20-30 MP on top of their saves. Then if they can find better gear to fill the slots they can fill, they can do so, at the cost of their natural MP.

I see more griffons than I do dwarves or centaur. Don't see why this is such a problem.

I agree. Centaurs have a bigger issue than even griffons do. I mean, aim low dominates any centaur, regardless of what they're wearing.

Of course, the way around that is to have all your legs severed and then find a means of permanent flight.

Say, what happens if you trip a centaur without legs?

Or bash, for that matter.