Shattered Kingdoms

There is nothing in the alignment where it says that they value the life of darkies any less than anyone else. At the same token it does say though that they have no problem with killing "unrepentent evil."

Can they find shelter in Nerina? Eh . . .It depends who is seeking shelter and why. That hasn't changed and I doubt it ever will.

Cyra, this wouldn't of been necessary if certain lighties weren't acting like darkies because they can't rp being a lightie. Also, Big D still didn't take out the one word that should never be in any description of a lightie char. Lightie chars can still be ruthless, just towards graybies and darkies.

Let me clear up a few misconceptions. First, I agree with the change that Dulrik made. Good aligned characters should not be killing each other, except under the most extraordinary of circumstances. Second, good aligned characters should not be harboring, aiding, or abetting evil aligned characters, which, in my opinion, is just as worthy of a curse as good killing good.

The problem appears to be that the IMMs no longer enforce alignment roleplay, so players have taken it upon themselves to police violations. So when Mr. Hammer Crusader runs into a scenario where an elf or other good aligned character is harboring, aiding or abetting evil, he reduces himself to the same level of poor roleplay by killing another good aligned character in the process of destroying the evil he was hunting.

It is common sense that good should not kill good. It is also common sense that good should not be harboring, aiding or abetting evil either. However, if that happens, it is better to let the IMMs handle it than ruin your own roleplay and go against the tenets of your alignment by killing another good aligned character.

Nothing has really changed, frankly. If your character is principled or scrupulous, you can still wholesale murder evil and neutral. If a good aligned character "gets in the way", Dulrik has already defined your options: stun them. And as Dulrik stated, they should be attempting to stun you as well, so there is no tactical disadvantage.

Really? I've never heard them take an official stance NOT to take that. If you can come up with any official document that says that zhenshi will not allow foreign criminals (who are law-abiding in zhenshi and might even be beneficial to the community) I will eat my words.


Yada yada yada, of course there's the diplomacy aspect. Sometimes diplomacy fails. I know, it's crazy. Even if it took a week, I don't think the Hammer should stop all actions just to wait for what (to them) is usually a very small pawn in a very big game.


The keepers can help by default. For instance, I could sit in the same room as other keepers with their guards, and if a hammer attacks me, they get auto attacked. I can also walk around the city and if I get jumped, flee and report the crime. Repeat. As long as I keep mode stun on the Hammer will be plagued by bounty hunters every league they move, including inside the courtyard of Morea (this was before that was fixed). It only takes a couple days of that before the Hammer can't do [REDACTED] inside of Taslamar, which was of course the whole point to begin with.

By the way, I don't see anything evil about a tribunal defending a person who has committed no crimes. If the Hammer attacked me in a crowded area and drew quite a few guards and killed them, they'd end up causing significant damage to their city (and murder). Would the keepers not be within rights to kill them if they went around causing trouble?


Exactly. So why change the help file?

Adder, if you haven't figured out your opinions are wrong then maybe the above quote will help. You're so busy blowing hot air you can't even take time to realize that you don't know wtf you're saying. You're attitude and perspective on the game are always wrong. I suppose now Dulrik himself is wrong and has no business changing the helpfile for the game he created.

Times like this makes me wish I still had my Adderisms thread.
The help file has already been changed and has gone live btw.

I think you missed the part a page back or so where I said basically exactly that. This discussion is for most intents and purposes completely academic at this point. Nobody's participation is forced. I most definitely did not say that D could not change the help file if he wanted to.

On an unrelated topic, I really wish you would just IM me or write a hate-filled email someday so you could just let out all this not so subtle hostility you have for me. It's getting extremely tiresome having you take a shot at me periodically. Why waste the energy?

Adder, to be fair and honest, your examples are overly violent and show a clear disregard for life.

My SK examples were all based on situations that actually occured, and frequently. I wasn't trying to pull stuff out of a hat just to prove a point. I can't alter reality, so if people don't like them there's not much I can do about it.

If you need it, I am sure Jardek has a few boxes of Kleenex, which he keeps handy for DA, that he could loan you.

Then that's sad.

I don't think that walking into a room and seeing a dark aura character and immediately jumping to kill him and anybody that is nearby is acceptable.

I think the alignment you're looking for in that situation is miscreant.

I'd be willing to give you leeway if there were talks and roleplay beforehand trying to redeem said darkie and him refusing, or the Talon character. However, your example is not indicative of that, rather just to kill all darkies on sight and anybody else that gets in your way.

If that was the norm during your day then yes, the standards have degenerated. I don't agree with the change because I know that Muktar has a way to talk a pile of [REDACTED] for his own benefit, however, you gave the most damaging arguments to the case.

Orac, we're just discussing, why the sudden hostility?

Adder, you have a point about the law automatically helping the bad guys. But no PC keeper would ever help them, and I remember Mahlovian pardoning Hammers all the time, when their cause was "good", even if it broke the law's letter, but upheld the spirit. I'm sure the Keepers could do the same for Hammers, or simply not pardon anyone. That way, Exile would really be neutral ground instead of Lightie ground. Anyone who attacked first would be in trouble, there would be intrigue so one would avoid the guards, and battles would be fought only when it really made a a great difference.

The PC keepers will probably be disarmed and without any authority if Taslamar is to surrender.

Now, for Zhenshi, what official documents are you looking for? I am not saying there was an official decleration that foreign criminals wouldn't be harbored, I said that they never declared that they would. Also, according to Zhenshi's mindset, it's only sensible that no Talon leader would willingly allow dark auras (or anyone else, really) with a mind for causing violence, war and trouble (very Anti-Zhensh things) to use Zhenshi as an outpost to hide in after comitting major crimes somewher else.

Zhenshi has had very good relationships with Taslamar and that is exactly why it makes a lot of sense for Talons to say "Sorry guys, time's up. You visited my nation, but I am told by respected nations and allies that you cause trouble, and you don't even live here, so you your welcome is overdue. We treated you well enough, but time to go to your homes." Every official has the right to deny these rights to people he considers dangerous and potential trouble-makers with good reason. The law is not a static thing that will allow every one to mock the authorities. If those trouble-makers do behave perfectly in Zhenshi and are even beneficial, there might be good RP going on. Taslamar will somehow have to convince the Talons that those people do not deserve the rights of those who respect peace.

"Exactly. So why change the help file?"

To show people something they might have misunderstood in the natural course of SK's IC history and clarify the RP of a particular alignment so that it does not overlap or get confused with another's.