Shattered Kingdoms

necromancers = defiles mother = kill on sight and get pardoned = it's all good
griffons = unnatural = can't kill on sight because no pardons = forget cycle stuff

There's nothing with greys switching sides often or aligning with one or the other. That's why they're grey- selfish. Why should they form an independent group at all? It's actually contradictory idea to think that selfish people will band together.

This thread really isn't about religion. Your alignment may make you suitable to join a following, not vice-versa.

I find Adder's argument completely convincing - convincing me to side against him. Scrupulous to kill another good person simply because they disagree on how to deal with an evil person? Astounding. This says more to me about how far the standards have fallen than anything else.

I've rewritten some help files. Given that so many people seem to play scrupulous because they feel that principled is too restrictive, I have slightly revised the definition for principled as well to give them a bit more leeway. And then I figured I'd go for three and make unprincipled sound a bit more consistant. Anyway here are the new live definitions:



Note that immortals will attempt to observe whether people are living up to these standards. If people intentionally go out of their way to break these updated guidelines, there may be some consequences.

Holy cow.

Wow.



Tat: The Sheriff's guards might not be evil but they're surely not "good" in the legendary, faity-tale Robin Hood. They were knowingly helping a tyrrant by serving as his soldiers. That tyrrant did not do Richard's bidding but helped himself and oppressed the people.

They are responsible for accepting orders that resulted in suffering and oppression. It is their "fault" that they chose to side with the "evil" authorities (even to feed their families) while they could have all technically rebelled and ousted the Sheriff. Everyone is accountable for one's actions. They are obviously Greys who have sided with Evil as Greys often do.

Despite this, In the most childish versions of the tale, as well as some action movies, Robin does not kill a single "minion", in the same swashbuckling manner that the Four Musketeers often are depicted to defeat their enemies. Exceptions are made of course when it's a Big Villain Who Really Deserves It. Even then, remember the cliche? The Hero leaves the miserable, defeated villain lying on the floor, humbled, to live in his shame, unable to do anymore real harm. But then Big Villain can't accept this and tries to kill in a particularly underhanded way. So Hero klils BV in self-defense.

There's a typo in 'commit' in principled. Also, I think 'capturing' should be removed - it should simply be an attempt to reform them.

Otherwise, I really am not fond of principled being dumbed down. I vote for putting back up 'will' follow and uphold the laws of the land. Also, "try to avoid killing at all costs" should be thrown back in, though the do not necessarily shy away part is cool.

Scrupulous, if it has to be done, has to be done. Scrupulous has been a breeding ground for idiots, sadly.

I hate the idea of a lightie being unable to kill someone standing in the way of their life goal of destroying evil if they can't talk them out of their way, for fear of a curse. If I played scrupulous, I'd still do it and take the curse if someone was bent on sticking it. Adder's just a dumbshit, but that doesn't mean reasons won't arise that fall well within the bounds of good, deep RP. What if a scrupulous elf found another elf chilling with a deep-elf, continually, without repent? Enmity and alignment clash. I don't like it.

They are willing to work with almost anyone who will help them in their cause? Turn a blind eye to evil acts if it'll help them out? This part is opening a very wide door that leads down a very slippery slope far worse than the ones being fixed.

I <3 you too will.

Dulrik just killed my character concept. What a dick.

May I suggest just a slight tweak to the scrupulous file? Instead of "... they will not intentionally kill those of good heart.", I would much prefer "they will not intentionally kill them.", with them referring to the innocent.

First, there's no reasonable way for most characters to tell who has a good heart. They can only judge actions.

Second, there are cases where someone who is good might not be innocent. If the Talons declare war on the Guardians, scrupulous Guardians shouldn't have to inquire about the alignments of individual Talons. Kill the invaders!

Third, there are cases where someone might be innocent but not good. Many essentially law-abiding grays fall in this category for the typical scrupulous character. Killing an honest cop just to get to a foe doesn't get much better if the cop is gray. Innocent is the better word.

It's true that it's fairly obvious what is really meant by the new help file, but I want to avoid arguments with rules lawyers: "We're both good-aligned! You're not allowed to kill me no matter how evilly I act!"

Only if your concept was "I'm making this character to kill other lighties". In which case, then yes, I've killed your lame concept.

I look forward to seeing immortals cursing overly aggressively-campaigning paladins such as Halcidan (who under these rules would easily be facing multiple curses or deletion) as well as scrupulous characters such as Gloif or Arsilan who also seem to be violating the new ridiculous changes to the help files.

Immortals policing mortals isn't the way to go. Killing somebody in SK is the equivalent of giving somebody a bruise in real life. Because death is not close to permanent in SK, it should not be treated like it is in real life.

Example:

Elf mercenary, in the talon. Speaking with a number of dark-auras, a few adepts, who are sitting in the Nerinan inn. They are discussing religion calmly. In comes a hammer scrupulous warlock, who sees the dark-aura adepts who have killed many people in cold blood and sends a tell to the talon member - you need to leave the room immediately so I can fireball in. Those are criminals of hte Light.

Talon member responds: They are not criminals in Nerina, and you must respect the laws here.

Hammer responds: I will not let you harm the Light just because you are a naive pacifist - c 'fireball' w. There dies the Talon member and the dark auras.

Scrupulous character just intentionally killed someone of good heart. CURSE. Too bad these sorts of events happen all of the time and have happened hundreds of times in the last few years, and the players of these scrupulous characters have become immortals themselves.