Shattered Kingdoms

It's so easy, my first hellion used to magically happen to be on it whenever he tried to cleave someone...

And you both missed my point. Ruthlessness requires a person to not not ever have any remorse for what the action might include, which is a totally selfish attitude. Of the three base categories does it fall under? Good: I hope the hell not; Selfish: Yeah, it can fit in here; Evil: Hell yes.

I will say again. The religion of SK is completely tied with the alignment system. Every part of their ethos falls within the lightie-graybie-darkie system. For instance, you will never see the murder sphere in the lightie domain. Also for instance, you will never see Healing in the darkie spheres. The spheres are put into the places where they fit with the alignments. There are some spheres of course that has no place in any of the alignments (Art being an example).

So, adder instead of just saying that isn't the case, try to at least to use logic to tell me no.

Goldlantern, I did not see the Judging part. Judging is neither good nor bad. To be a judge is to be neither good nor bad. It is like art, it cannot be difined properly in the alignment system. The thing about judging though is how your bring about justice, but the actually judging itself, cannot be placed within this alignment system.

The gods work withIN the alignment system, not the other way around. That's why you'll never see a Lightie god for murder or whatever. The alignment system would not change at all if the pantheon did not exist.

And yet "judgement" is technically a darkie sphere.

Judgment is infact not a sphere, and if it was a sphere, it would fall under a certain dichotomy of a religion that would work for both lighties and darkies.

Why are we talking about religion, again?

Yeah, I see no reason to involve religion in a world where Death happens to be considered a natural part of the circle because the being embodying it is itself mostly Neutral while he could possibly be Dark, coloring his Spheres a dark color too. Gods in SKs have personalities, they are entities that influence their spheres as much as their spheres influence them, afterall.

I think we've all presented our arguments well over this huge thread (some without brevity because they can't help talking too much, I have to admit ). We all have our unique, personal opinion about what the "ideal" or the norm should be. If we should conclude somewhere, then I think the best way is in the middle. I like what Forsooth has suggested. The arguments of "if that is what a Lightie should be doing, then what is left for grey and dark auras really, what's the difference?" and the fact that ruthlessness can be directed only towards the "adversary" instead of his own people under any but the most overwhelmingly urgent circumstances easily win me over.

- Miscreant, if he decides on a "greater good" that resembles the wellfare of people or his people, and aberrant, without the honor part pretty much resembles the Scrupulous one side describes.

- Principled, but less stuck up on a code and respect for society's laws and Tradition does the same.

Something in the middle should be OK for all of us.

So you're telling me that Robin Hood and his men (being his responsibility) never shot a guard? What if that guard was just trying to earn an honest crust to feed his family, if he was just a soldier trying to keep his head down and do his job? Wouldn't that qualify him as an innocent? Did Mr. Hood stop to question the guards motives and past actions and guild before he skewered him with an arrow? Did the guard get a fair trial?

I don't think so. The guard just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and in the unfortunate of having a duty to stop Robin in his escape from the castle / escort the Sheriff's carriage / guard the vault door / whatever.

The guard was an innocent. The guard was also collateral damage. The guard got in the way of Robin serving his greater good. Poor guard.

Robin's still scrupulous, but I'm not even sure if he's going to have sleepless nights over that one. The guard just didn't figure highly enough in his considerations. And if he did, he was probably evil anyway. After all, why else would he be working as a guard for the sheriff.

If you're not with us, you're against us.

But surely the point is that this assertion is entirely wrong? Ruthlessness in and of itself does not preclude the capacity for remorse or regret for the actions that were taken because they were deemed so necessary.

Ruthlessness is therefore not in and of itself a "totally selfish attitude".



Different argument, however ....

Religions are tied into the alignment system. The alignment system is not tied into religions.

And anyway, there is no reason why a white aura'd pantheonist might not whisper a prayer to Sargas on the brink of a battle. Or make a sacrifice to placate and ward away the malfesience of Dabi in the hope of avoiding sickness. Or whatever.

And to take the Sargas example, his spheres are War and Power (has somebody added conquest back in without me noticing? I thought he left that behind with the cooling corpse of Ariakas?) War is something just about everybody in Pyrathia engages in gleefully to one level or another. And equally, Power is just as ethically ambivilant, dependent upon the context of its use. The Hammer seek power just as much as the Adepts, only each crave it for different purposes.

It typically isn't the sphere that defines the morality in the religions of Pyrathia, but rather the manifestation of the entity that governs them.

I look down at anyone who says its a good thing to die. I really wish death was more painfull. Anyway,

I see to many lighties act evil. I also dont think that changing the help file will do anything. My biggest problem is grey's rolling with the lights almost 24/7. I mean grey groups not grey charactors. Becuase many people want to be evil but pick grey just so they dont get killed on sight by the good people.

I mean I cant be the only one who thinks the druids (maybe not so much right now) have acted like an extension of the light if not a part of it? If anything i would like to see the greys actually be grey. not side with darkies or lighties but form thiere own independent group. But thats just me.