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Do you think the scrupulous help file needs a change?
Yes 43%  43%  [ 25 ]
No 28%  28%  [ 16 ]
Wert Option 29%  29%  [ 17 ]
Total votes : 58
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:40 pm 
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The more fantasy-setting Robin Hood is the subject of analyzation here. The concept of using an illegal or immoral act (stealing and mugging) to benefit the good or needy is more in the lines of scrupulous, especially given the fact that Robin Hood would never feel -bad- about having jumped another guy, and then taken his money. But, I think if Robin Hood screwed up and accidentally killed the guy he was stealing from, even if he were forced to, to survive, he would most definitely feel guilt. That's what makes him scrupulous as opposed to unprincipled. The fact that he would steal to reach his goals (which are good in and of themselves), is what differentiates him from a principled dude.

Ruthless, IMO, shouldn't apply to how a scrupulous person treats the livelihood of others. Robin Hood is "ruthless" in his stealing, but not "ruthless" in his treatment of his victims. At least, in the fantasy setting. He wasn't so great IRL.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:40 pm 
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SK Character: Sorel
Muktar wrote:
That is why I like to use the Robin Hood vs Superman example. Robin Hood=scrupulous and superman=principled. Spawn=Aberrent.

I won't disagree that robin hood is scrupulous. I WILL disagree with him being the ONLY legal interpretation of robin hood.

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I would also like to put forth that I would argue that ruthlessness is already covered in the pantheon: Sargas. No one can even make a reasonable argument that ruthlessness can be covered in any of the Lightie faiths.


When did religion come into this?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:56 pm 
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Ahhh . . .Adder . . .this whole thing is about religion and SK and where certain virtues(I am very loosely defining it) fall under.

I never said that Robin Hood or superman were end all and be all of the alignments. I was just trying to bring up a better example than batman, because he does it not because it is good but because of his pshycological disorder tells(for lack of a better term) him to.

I will say it again. This argument will end pretty quick if someone can convince me that any of the lightie faiths would fully endorse someone who would kill someone and not feel any remorse, or being cruel, or any other of the definitions. You won't, want to know why? Sargas has that domain already.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:19 pm 
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This shouldn't be about religion, because not everyone is in a religion, and therefore the rules therein don't apply to everyone. Additionally, Lighties aren't always in Lightie faiths.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:29 pm 
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it goes beyond religion but no offense, if I see a lightie and him/her is a cronic liar, I hope they get cursed. I hope that if anyone that claims to be a lightie and does anything that the darkie pantheon supports gets curse. Morals in SK are actually based off of the sphere's of influence by the God/desses.

[edit] I should of said that I hope that if any lightie continually does anything that the darkie pantheon supports should get cursed


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:34 pm 
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So, lighties can't enjoy the CONQUEST of good over evil, the triumph? Oh, and lighties clearly can't enjoy evil FEARing to show it's ugly face, lest it get bitchslapped by a holy word. Oh, and lighties also shouldn't partake in JUDGING anyone.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:42 pm 
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Salandarin wrote:
The more fantasy-setting Robin Hood is the subject of analyzation here. The concept of using an illegal or immoral act (stealing and mugging) to benefit the good or needy is more in the lines of scrupulous, especially given the fact that Robin Hood would never feel -bad- about having jumped another guy, and then taken his money. But, I think if Robin Hood screwed up and accidentally killed the guy he was stealing from, even if he were forced to, to survive, he would most definitely feel guilt. That's what makes him scrupulous as opposed to unprincipled. The fact that he would steal to reach his goals (which are good in and of themselves), is what differentiates him from a principled dude.

Ruthless, IMO, shouldn't apply to how a scrupulous person treats the livelihood of others. Robin Hood is "ruthless" in his stealing, but not "ruthless" in his treatment of his victims. At least, in the fantasy setting. He wasn't so great IRL.


Do you think Robin Hood would feel bad if he gave the guy who was stealing from a bruise on the rump? That's what dying is in SK, compared to real life. A bruise on the rump. Dying in real life is -extremely different- from SK, because it is permanent as opposed to meaning almost absolutely nothing even in game terms. Killing somebody in SK is the equivalent of giving another man a bruise - do lighties feel bad about doing that or not, is the question.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:42 pm 
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Yep, that is what I am saying. Good doesn't do good because they want to conquer. Good does good, because it is the right thing to do. Like I said though, as long as a char doesn't make it a habbit to be happy of conquerering someone, I don't care. Our chars would not be round chars if they were flawless. I take offense when someone continually does it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:43 pm 
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SK Character: Sorel
I think goldlantern ripped up that argument pretty well.

None of the discussion here should involve SK religion at all, unless you can prove that the alignments behavior are based on SK religions.

... Which I already know is false, since as I previously mentioned they're almost identical to the Palladium alignment system- which D has already said they're influenced by.

http://archive.dumpshock.com/Nightlife/ ... essing.htm

http://www.answers.com/topic/alignment wrote:
"Palladium

Palladium uses a system where alignments are described in detailed terms with alignments describing how a character acts in a certain situation; whether they will lie, how much force they will use against innocents, how they view the law, and so on. The alignments are organized into three broad categories: Good, Selfish, and Evil. The seven core alignments are Principled (Good), Scrupulous (Good), Unprincipled (Selfish), Anarchist (Selfish), Aberrant (Evil), Miscreant (Evil), and Diabolic (Evil). An eighth alignment, Taoist, was introduced in Mystic China, but has not seen wide use.

Each category contains answers to a set of questions on moral behaviors. For example, given the question "Would you keep a wallet full of cash you found?", most selfish or evil alignments would keep it, while most good alignments would seek to return the wallet to its owner. The categories are not organized into a pattern like Dungeons & Dragons. The system specifically does not include any sort of "neutral" alignment on the grounds that a neutral point of view is antithetical to the sort of active role heroes and villains should play in a story."


etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:57 pm 
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Of all this I would like to add one thing.

Radamanthys is right. Mode stun really is just that easy.


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