Shattered Kingdoms

No, he meant necromancers. And he's right. Paladins and necromancers are the two alignment extremes, and in most cases neither has any place in the druids.

Diello was the first (and to my memory the only) necromancer ever to be in the druids. He was also the first "bone shaman" in the game (the roleplay of which being the only reason he was able to join the druids), a necromancer title that has long outlived that character.

There have been a few great hellions in the druids in the past. Yenko (winter) hellions were the most compatible with the druid concept. They have a lot of opportunity to fit in that cabal. But then again, I also believe that the occasional necromancer with the right roleplay could too. Paladin would be the hardest fit to RP well, IMO.

My take...

Paladins and hellions really don't fit the Druid mould well. Necromancers sure as hell dont. If barbarians are against the concept of enlightenment to the point that they can never be a monk of the Fist, then I would say none of those three classes should ever be allowed in the Druids.

I do remember a hellion and paladin combo being in the Druids. They were both followers of Ain. I think they fit the Druid concept fairly well, but necromancers have no place in the Druids.

That is unless D thinks he will let barbs into the Fist. He has come out time and again saying that it is not allowed. There is no way I can justify the exception for necromancers, unless they never learn spells associated with undeath.

What use would that character be? Minus animate and control, a necromancer is just a wimpy sorc without utility and a few maledictions.

A

I understand that he meant Necromancers, but Paladins are a lot more like Hellions than a Necromancer, excluding the alignment restriction that is on the necormancers and paladins (which I believe shouldn't be there in the first place).

However, I do agree with you that Hellions have a place in the Druids just as lighties (scrupulous characters) do.

Have I ever mentioned that the no-barbarians-in-fist rule is [REDACTED]? Yeah. It is.




The one great freedom that necromancers have is that their craft turns them insane for all intents & purposes. Or, at least, that is what the help files suggest.

Aside from limiting the vast freedom and potential of roleplay with [REDACTED] rules like the no-barbarians-in-fist lameness, then there are some possible bizarre opportunities for completely legitimate & believable necromancer roleplay that could fit extremely well with the druid concept.

Unfortunately, however, the RP would be difficult, and I really don't know how many roleplayers in the game today could actually pull it off, even without the no-barbarians-in-fist-type [REDACTED] rules that exist.

As far as I remember barbarians are not allowed in the Fist because their fighting/life style revolves around them being undisciplined whereas the Fist is centered on discipline. It has nothing to do with barbarians not wanting enlightenment. There are two problems here. First, the cabal and the class are inherently set in a mutually exclusive way. Second, the Fist shouldn't be a cabal but rather made into a class.

Regarding the necromancers in the druids, I agree that this should be very rare. But I don't see the class and cabal as inherently mutually exclusive. With proper interpretation of Druid beliefs and a character with corresponding concept/rp it could work. Although, I would fear all those that want to make the "unique" character chasing this just to make a bunch of lame Drizit knock-offs or some such.

Lei Kung

Bah! Well I was the original, and pulled it off quite well.



Yeah, that was Terramos and Sorrinius. Brothers ICly, both HF's of Ain, focused more on the balancing of the scale(natural balance anyone?), and more on the logic and order(natural order as well) spheres of Ain, than the Justice. Since I know someone is going to come along and mention something about natural order being chaotic in nature, I'll just pre-emptively say there is nothing to compare order too without chaos of some sort, and true order would be lost if there wasn't true chaos, and that's why it worked. Also it helped that the Druids at the time were very focused on natural balance and order in all things, which coincides nicely with the spheres of Ain after a bit of twisting.

The concept wasn't perfect, nor was it meant to be, perfect concepts are boring, and leave no room for work, and IMO that's half the fun of RPing, starting out with a lump of clay concept, and after much shaping and fleshing of that lump, seeing what you've ended up with when your done playing the character. Regardless it was fun to play.

[REDACTED]. The way I understand it, barbarians weren't allowed in the fist because lightning fists and jujitsu used to stack with wild fighting and the immstaff didn't want that, so they made up a juju superstition surrounding barbarians and discipline.

Actually Fist skills don't stack with barbarian skills, as I am told. At least not anymore. Before the weapons update I imagine, yes they did. I can understand if Dulrik says no barbarians in the Fist, I will follow his lead.

However, unless D makes the same kind of statement about necromancers the only person who you would have to answer to is Zavijah. I don't know what he thinks of a bone shaman joining up with the DR00B13Z.

Achernar

Yeah fists skills and barbarian skills never stacked. The sole reason for disallowing barbarians was for rp purposes.

IMHO, even if one player once manages to RP a bone shaman nowadays, at the cost of all undead related spells etc, it will be only very few months after his deletion that another necromancer, with all his undeath spells equipped will "demand" to enter the druids, and not only then, but the current leaders of that time will be elastic enough to let him in.

Look at Seram's example and the hellions that then enter/try to enter the Harlequins. It is common that people haste to immitate this "unusual" RP they may have admired when witnessed, but they are not willing to sacrifice what it takes to actually do it.