Shattered Kingdoms

Okay I know this has been beat to death already in the past but with all the new changes to other classes can the necromancer class get some love to?

never played a necromancer but what's wrong with them? I get the impression that they are hard to play but can be effective if done right.

okay ill go with spells they got first,

animate dead - wraiths used to be barbarians the paralyze touch was wack back then but you could load them up with enchanted weapons because you would not lose them from the hoard code and spell them up with wands and they were pretty nasty. Now none have any fighting abilities (kick bash trip dirt berserk fury), and only the skeletons can use weapons. Others can weild but are not trained in them. when wearing a weapon they dont do there cool ability, chill poison plague paralyze.

Control undead - cool you can control a few barbarians but you need devices to buff them up, unlike a sorceror who can enchant weapons and buff. Controls usually have cool scripts you lose or they get weaken when controlled, while lathron will still have sanctuary and i think haste after charming.

fear - good when animates could bash because you could bash then fear everyone out. no bash just makes everyone flee.

energy drain - used to be nasty when they were able to take levels away but they stopped that, i remember when GM's were stunned and drained to amature way back then. Now you can just go to a healer and heal it no big deal.

Finger of death - You can one shot someone, if they arent enchanted for fortitude which everyone is because of petrification. but useless to waste when someone is already getting hurt since its only a quarter of your life will be taken. 100% you lose 25% , at 10% you lose 2.5%.


Devices are not as strong anymore. your too weak to not be ethereal in any PvP situation or else any number of things can happen, Range or magma. Paladins should still be able to rock necromancers no matter what though so thats alright. But good luck trying to sit there and cast while you get destroyed by the damage your gonna take in 2 rounds.

Some of the primary problems that necromancers face are as follows.

1) They're the most vulnerable class in the game. They have the lowest HP in the game, they wear cloth armor, and they have no defensive spells besides armor, shield and spell ward. If you compare them to the other caster classes, their vulnerabilities are made very clear: Priests get healing spells, protection and sanctuary, shamans get sanctuary and healing spells, sorcerers get mirror image and etherealform, and warlocks get stone skin, ironguard, resist elements and healing rays. Necromancers are also vulnerable to bolt of glory. This means that necromancers are very vulnerable to ranged physical combat and ranged spells, Bolt of glory, lightie holy words, circle stabs and spell damage (especially magma spray, which will probably one-shot any necro on a failed reflex save).

2) Their primary damage sources are either risky or clunky and easy to take advantage of. The primary offensive options for a necromancer are animating undead and undead controls. Controls are more reliable and automatic, in that a few berserked controls with massive and/or reaching weapons can produce some dangerous melee damage even while the necro focuses on casting spells or using magical devices. On the other hand, controls can be countered with cancellation, remove compulsion, and BoG. Cancellation and remove compulsion are especially dangerous because they will turn the controls on the necromancer, more often than not turning his own formation into shambles. The other primary offensive weapon a necromancer has are animates. However, if a necromancer uses any more than a few animates in his group, which add a rather negligible amount of damage, he will be forced to animate undead and then have them follow him outside of his group. This means that in order for those animates to be involved in combat, the necromancer will be forced to rely on orders. As animates possess very few active combat skills since the nerf, this means that if a necromancer chooses to use animates, he relegates himself to spending the majority of any given fight in "o all hit XXX" lag. Not only is this clunky to use correctly, it's also very dangerous as order lag is front-loaded. In the time that it takes for a max charisma necro to recover from a single order, he can potentially be one-shot by magma or tagged by BoG. In addition, animated undead received a very strong nerf to their HP pools, so that a single GM holy word (a spell which has a cast time comparable to that of a max charisma order) will often one-shot animates through the damage alone.

3) Necros lack the out-of-combat utility that other caster classes provide. Sorcerers have access to gate and enchant, warlocks can brew ironguard and stone skin, and priests have access to consecrate and brew. Necromancers can scribe finger of death, but other than that they are sorely lacking: And most of the time, double petrification is more desirable than finger of death, because while finger of death is guaranteed to do -some- damage, it will never one-shot any NPC or PC that has either protection, sanctuary, or a notable amount of MP on his gear.

4) Necros are inherently untrusted. Not only are they forced to be diabolic, instantly setting them against all light-auras and certain cabals, but even groups that are not required to kill necros on sight should never fully trust one.

The strengths of necros are certainly strong, but they are simply not worth the drawbacks: They possess the highest theoretical damage output in the game with controls and animates, yet taking advantage of it requires the necro to spend the majority of his fights in order lag, and an intelligent player will take liberal advantage of ranged combat against an animate-necromancer, as necros have no ranged abilities. In addition, the majority of difficult end-game PvE areas require traversal through rooms that do not allow pets or null-magic rooms, making it impractical, if not nigh impossible, for a necro to contribute with their iconic undead armies in those areas. They possess all the maledictions in the game, including what is perhaps the most dangerous group PvP spell in the game, fear, but the class is so vulnerable that they simply do not have the luxury of spending time in combat casting maledictions.

In short, if you want to contribute to your team as a utility and control based caster, you should play a sorcerer. If you want to play a maledictor, you should play a hellion or shaman, as both are much more defensive than a necromancer and will be able to take advantage of their maledictions without constantly risking death. If you want to play a damage-focused caster, you should play a warlock. If you want to play a demanding class that has strengths in all of these areas but is outshined by those three classes and is required to be at odds with a strong portion of the playerbase, then you can roll a necro.


As for a buff, I proposed a time ago that necros should get a skill that, on success, allows them to order their animated undead (not controls) without any order lag. A failed check would either do nothing or incur the standard order lag. This would allow a necromancer to actually take advantage of their iconic (and weakened) undead army while also allowing them to do other important things in combat like casting spells, quaffing heals, or of course, zapping themselves with chain lightning. Right now they're simply the most demanding class in the game with very little reward.

This is no longer the case.

what he said.

I'm sorry necromancers don't work the way they used to, put in some extensive testing before you suggest they need a buff though. As jacked up as my character is I am lucky to last about six rounds against an undead horde, most people are lucky to get to four. I don't see why that is an issue? O all bash and you nail anyone on the front lines. You have a way to scribe things and a multitude of spells at your finger tips to play with as support or even on your own.

It still requires at least two people to engage a necro in the same room, one to be a meat shield and eat the NPC horde damage, the other to try and dispel, holy word, bolt etc. So pardon me if I am solo and decide to take the ranged combat route, facing a necro one on one is kind of a death sentence.

Talk to trag if you are having problems. Please though, stop saying that necros are junk, that necros are only working properly if they have ten bashes with massive weapons that one round anything.

Let's get back to a useful class like bards and fix them.

I didn't say that necros were junk or that they needed ten bashers to be useful. If you read my post you'd realize that's not what I said at all.

I agree with with a few things edoras has brought up. I tried playing a necromancer again, but with the current changes, I find them easy to counter and not as useful as the shaman who basically shares many of the same maledictions. I'm assuming they were being pushed more toward a maledictor/animate build with the increase to control undead concentration. I think I could certainly make the class work in terms of being competitive in pk, but that would require me to have a certain tribunal/cabal combination and I do not think their success should hinge on that. While I still think the class certainly isn't underpowered, I do not feel inspired to play them since they require specialized knowledge of wands/controls/cabals/tribunals to make successful.

Bards are legit the way they are. I can make one competent in PvP with no problems at all. Especially with everything that has changed with the prone system. If you think a necromancer is suicide 1 v 1 don't even bother against a competent warlock/sorc/shaman because they will eat you alive. They don't need the or all bash, since they can still do that with controls. Edoras is spot on with the whole lag and cast time thing. The way they are built its basically forces them to be ethereal and order all bash. I am waiting to see with the decrease to the animates hp how well a certain cabal weapon would tear them up. Especially since I don't think they parry or dodge.