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Griffon Innates
https://shatteredkingdoms.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21120		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Forsooth [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Griffon Innates
I suggest an update to the griffon racial skills. The current ones do a lot to support Journeyman levels and below, but aren't that exciting later on, where most of the game is played. Getting extra attribute points is one of the best bonuses, but griffon classes tend to either fighting or magic, with relatively little need for attributes in multiple areas. And if a griffon is down to buying +mana, any of the slots a griffon misses could do that far better. Is it within reason to add skills that reward griffons for spending more on attributes?

Innate spears would encourage points in STR. I'm not much for griffon weapons, but the race's mass and speed suggests they could be good lancers. And if spellcasters had a more powerful extended-length weapon than polemaces, strength would be more of an asset. This addition also does nothing to help users of certain power weapons or cabal skills.

I'm less sure about a spell to encourage INT buildup. Bless seems about the right power level, but I'm not sure the concentration requirement is high enough. Shield seems the right concentration level, but it's been too long since I used it to be sure about its power.

It's not that current griffons are terribly bad, or that they need to be a good choice for power. But having a race defined mainly by weaknesses at high level just discourages making one in the first place. It'd be nice to see something that makes them play differently than more standard races, without being impressed into a certain cabal. (And even in that cabal, it's not as if everyone doesn't have the same skills.)
Author:  Baldric [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
If you are a caster, INT, WIS, CHA, CON, DEX, MANA, ART, and HP will always be useful.

If you are a warrior, STR, DEX, CON, HP, WIS will always be useful. INT will be useful if you're in a cabal. CHA will be useful if you're in a trib.

Having extra stat points is already pretty useful regardless of what your class is.
Author:  grep [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
From what you're saying, you want to see more diverse griffons with end game options, and suggest adding innate abilities to make every griffon more MAD in order to do so? :o
Author:  Forsooth [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
Baldric wrote:
If you are a caster, INT, WIS, CHA, CON, DEX, MANA, ART, and HP will always be useful.

If you are a warrior, STR, DEX, CON, HP, WIS will always be useful. INT will be useful if you're in a cabal. CHA will be useful if you're in a trib.


Useful enough that you'd forfeit equipment slots for some extra attribute points? That's the deal griffons make by default.

And again, if you're spending an attribute point to get MANA +1, when you can get MANA +4 with just one additional slot, and put enchantments on that item besides, you're making an extremely poor deal.

I don't pretend to be a good with mechanics or PK, and griffon RP is fun despite the problems. But I think I can tell which is the short end of the stick here.
Author:  Rodwen [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
The MANA train is very very VERY different than an magical energy enchantment. Magical energy only gives you magical energy while mana increases the rate you regenerate the mana. Something else I'm sure, I just don't remember.

Unless I'm mistaken, there are no items that have a MANA train equivalent enchantment.
Author:  Baldric [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
You're definitely correct in your assessment that griffons get the short stick. They are definitely weaker than the other races. I thought this was intentional, though. The trade-off is that they require little prep-work to be viable and are easy to level, but at their most powerful they are weaker than the other races at their most powerful.
Author:  Sakhul [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
I once had an ex-Imm try to argue that griffons are a suitable counterbalance for necromancers.

It's not really related to this topic, but I thought it was fairly amusing.
Author:  orius [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
The only thing that discourages me from playing a griffon is their light alignment.

They're meant to suck. It's in their help file. Being a fan of griffons and having played a few, they're fine in terms of PK strengths and weaknesses. In terms of RP, they need dark alignment.

Cannon fodder can counterbalance necros to a certain extent. Probably at the cost of training MR. Or numbers, dual ambush hurts. So I'd have to agree with the ex-Imm.

I bet a griffon scout in a trib w/paladin NPCs could whoop a necro. Roll a necro, I'll roll a griffon scout. I'll flip you like flapjacks, yo! :rant:
Author:  Forsooth [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
A griffon tribunal scout sounds like a terrible race choice, thanks to limited charisma and the resulting order lag and NPC limits. Which is sort of the point: playing a griffon involves more mechanics-induced pain than fun. Even if "meant to suck" is going to be inserted into the help files, can't they at least do that in a more fun way?

I don't believe that added skills of this level would affect PK much, but they would make griffon PvE more enjoyable.
Author:  Tragonis [ Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Griffon Innates
I had a griffon scout in the Peacekeepers and he was very decent. My only gripe is that their potential is extremely limited.
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