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| Suggestion: Vendors 'identify' items they sell for you. https://shatteredkingdoms.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20848 |
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| Author: | dufelt [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Suggestion: Vendors 'identify' items they sell for you. |
Here's a typical example of my frustration where, in my opinion, the current game mechanic simply doesn't make sense: [HP:100%] [ME: 93%] [PE: 97%] > look The bazaar You are lost in a maze of stalls and vendors advertising their wares. Anyone,and everything can be bought somewhere in the bazaar of Ch'zzrym. Though thebazaar is quite crowded, there is noticeable silence in the air. Obvious exits: n s nw sw (Ethereal) (White Aura) The ghost of Hanathena (a stunning female half-elf) is flying here. (Dark Aura) A thin female deep-elf is walking around here. (Dark Aura) A thin female deep-elf is walking around here. (Dark Aura) A merchant garbed in the robes of a mage is selling trinkets here. [HP:100%] [ME: 93%] [PE: 97%] > list Items for sale: ... [ 6] A scroll of darkness - a small vellum note Price: 6 silver, 7 copper. ... [HP:100%] [ME: 95%] [PE:100%] > buy 6 You buy a scroll of darkness. A deep-elf merchant says to you 'Herf is 3 siluer, 3 copper in change.' A deep-elf merchant exclaims 'Thank you!' [HP:100%] [ME: 95%] [PE:100%] > cast identify scroll of darkness You start to concentrate. You utter the words, 'uoculoihuyl'. This is a scroll of darkness, a small vellum note, weighing approximately 0 lbs. It is of poor quality and is worth approximately 2 silver. [HP:100%] [ME: 95%] [PE:100%] > help darkness No help on that word. I get that it's a scroll of darkness. I think the vendor should be able to tell you about items that he's selling. The vendor in my example is clearly a mage and so should logically have this knowledge. I know what the scroll does, Hanathena told me IC ... but that's not the point. We should be able to learn more about an item we purchase than its name. Why would anyone purchase something they didn't know what it is? There's no 'fun' in having to discover absolutely everything by trial and error. If you use the scroll in the wrong context there's a chance you'll learn nothing in any case. How would you ever discover the correct context? I don't believe pawn brokers should have this ability since I fully accept that they're just selling on stuff that's been sold to them. I'm not demanding a full identify. Perhaps something like: You ask the merchant, 'What does the scroll of darkness do?' The merchant says to you, 'Try reciting it on something glowing.'. Please don't focus all your attention on my specific example since it's not the only instance I've felt this way. Take pets. I don't expect the pet seller in Garazul (sp?) to tell me the mischievous boggart is dark aura'd. (That's the topic of another thread) However, it would be nice to be able to learn something more than a name on your purchases. The last time I bought a pet I asked a friendly scout and he advised me ... but he wasn't able to tell me much more than which were mounts and which weren't. I still have no clue which can bash, which can rescue etc etc. This isn't asking for spoilers. This is asking for something, in my opinion, that makes perfect sense. You go to a shop, you ask what they sell, you find out a bit about what they sell ... you buy ... or not. Maybe there should be some sellers that don't know their product range very well. Fine ... but there should be at least one vendor in the realms that does know. |
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| Author: | grep [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Here's what vets do They roll a sorc and write down what and where the useful stuff is. Things that people usually assume are most basic, useful information are jealously guarded by people who aren't newbies, and any attempt to learn what's what that doesn't involve pandering to their characters is regarded as counter-productive to the very soul of the game. That's how things are, and that's how they've been, and that's probably how they will continue to be. Any journey through the pages and pages of archives in these forums confirms this. |
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| Author: | dufelt [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
That's really your best advice? Cheat? |
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| Author: | grep [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
It's what every other player ever does. It's a natural consequence of people playing through the same content multiple times, and trying to avoid it is silly and requires a great suspension of disbelief. Things like fact RP and rez RP demonstrate the failings of the rules in creating an enriched world. Instead, it's a bureaucratic obligation to have a defensible character. I'm basically agreeing with you about the fact that the inaccessible information about items is a problem, especially in the face of such a crazy economy system where buying something just to look at it is somewhat of an annoyance. It's a big joke, and the victims are the new people. They're told to "look around in-game," when all that does is flag them, in-game, as newcomers. It's like some sort of hazing ritual, and eventually, you prove your worth and are given the four magical URLs. No one really "relearns" where the wand of vortices is. They just get an excuse to have it. The sequestering of the Abyssal Tower is proof of the perpetuation of this unsightly fact. Writing down information like maps and items is one of the cornerstones of text-based adventure games. Just imagine trying to play Myst without it, and you'll get a good idea of what playing SK is like without it. Builders sometimes mercifully save you from this BS by putting up signs describing items for sale in the shop. The shops that do this are, as a result, stupidly popular among players and used by most, if not all, of them at one point or another. |
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| Author: | -Johnix- [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: The shops that do this are, as a result, stupidly popular among players
Even if what they sell is the same item with higher price. This is what I call good marketing and perfect service! Shattered Kingdoms! Where hard-coded restrictions do not exist.  
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| Author: | ninja_ardith [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Some vets actually go with groups, and ask ic where stuff is, so that they have legitimate excuses to get things. Sometimes it takes a long time to find out where a unique item might be too. I plundered a haste stave on my necromancer (awesome tool for wraiths since animated undead aren't auto-hasted) and didn't know where it came from until several characters later when I got lucky with a locate object spell. |
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| Author: | grep [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
-Johnix- wrote: Shattered Kingdoms! Where hard-coded restrictions do not exist.
You're in for a surprise, binky boy. |
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| Author: | Edoras [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
There's something inherently good in the idea of asking people rather than asking scripted NPCs. Most pets possess the ability to bash and rescue. If you're incredibly worried that the new pet you buy next won't have those abilities, then just buy the same pet next time instead of experimenting, and leave the experimenting to the people that want to. Anyone who can use magical scrolls also has the ability to identify said scroll themselves, or ask someone else to do it. Your specific case is even more easily resolved, but that's for later in this post. Anyone who wants to figure out what any item in a given shop does just has to buy them and identify them, get someone else to identify them, or just -ask- someone else. I don't consider that too much of a burden. There's already a shop in the game that completely describes every single item that's sold within it. It's kinda boring too, compared to other shops. In the end, adding the ability to ask shopkeepers what their items do will have to involve a code update and/or a metric crapton of work on the part of IMMs, and in return won't net much extra playability because in the end the same few people who are really interested in seeing what all the items in every shop do, will keep doing so, and everyone else will keep buying lions from Nerina. As for Grep, he's just jaded and trolling. Finally, you forgot to just -look- at the item you just bought, which is a good practice to take up in every situation. Quote: [HP:100%] [ME: 91%] [PE: 97%]
> You buy a scroll of darkness. A deep-elf merchant says to you 'Here is 9 gold, 3 silver in change.' A deep-elf merchant exclaims 'Thank you!' [HP:100%] [ME: 91%] [PE: 97%] > l darkness The scroll is covered with arcane writings: In one place, the writing coalesces into something legible, instructing the reader to recite <target object>. The rest of the scroll is clouded with age and more undecipherable script. A scroll of darkness is made of vellum and size small. |
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| Author: | Baldric [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
It makes sense that certain vendors would be able to tell you what they were selling, and this is a newbie-friendly change. I approve. |
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| Author: | grep [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Edoras is a tool and wants you to suffer as much or more than he did to get where he is; his recommendations are exactly the kind of thing I'm speaking out against. His recommendations are schizophrenic, but they're mostly a good representation of the status quo. More importantly, Baldric reminded me of some advice I forgot to give. Instead of using "look," make a habit of using "examine." Examine is a more robust command that will give you more useful information under more situations, such as when you're dealing with unexpected containers. Also use the "read" command as that often is used to convey information with signs and such. A simple code change I would like to see is item subtypes listed as well as their types by vendors, where appropriate. Knowing that "Excalipur" is a sword just isn't as informative as knowing that it is, in fact, a rapier. I would also like to see containers list what item slot they could be worn in. If you haven't been given the magical URLS yet, Dufelt, and want them, let us know. |
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