Shattered Kingdoms

There needs to be a serious look at the implementation and building of staves/scrolls/wands.

There shouldn't exist any magical device that carries the same effect as a spell exclusive to a single class such as bolt of glory, or hellfire. In-character there are various things that a character such as a paladin must do to gain access to a spell such as bolt of glory, which is one of the attractive forces to the class. There should be no reason why a sorcerer, or worse a necromancer that isn't held to the same high standards of conduct, and whatever other bs a paladin has to go through to gain access to their spells--there should be no reason that they can duplicate this effect with a wand, a scroll or a stave. On the flip side, the hellfire is the manifest unholy power of a hellion. There's no reason another class should get these same benefits. Hell, even a good guy can pick up a wand of hellfire and show off his unholy might these days.

It demeans the need of these classes, and gives access to spells that are otherwise inaccessible to classes that neither need them, nor deserve them. It makes no sense for my sorcerer of Alshain to be calling out hellfire, and it makes no sense for my necromancer to be flinging out bolts of glory. It's a perverse misrepresentation of holy and unholy powers.

Those items should just have an aura flag. Light for bolt and dark for hellfire.

I like em.

No, they shouldn't exist. That sorcerer doesn't have to go through the same [REDACTED] a paladin does, and doesn't deserve to be using those spells, I don't care if that sorcerer is principled, they're still not held to the same standard.

Same thing goes with the dark side. Hell, if I played a hellion again I'd kill anybody that wasn't a hellion that used hellfire or something else exclusive to the class.

Of course you do.

And who are you to judge who should be using what spell? (please note this is not a hateful thing at all. I even used to try and get this across. Please don't kill me.)

I don't care either way to be honest.

I think the overall power and such of devices need to be toned down. Overpowered devices should be exceedingly rare and only have 2 charges at the most. Just my 2 cp.

Edit: Due to the power of overpowered items, imo they should be non rechargable.

Saying this you'd also get rid of...
Magma spray staves
Chain lighting wands/staves
cone of cold staves/wands
spirit horde wands!!!!
Mass heal staves
harm staves
vampiric touch staves
fear staves/wands
the list goes on...

Somehow, I fail to see the problem? A few scripted items which those effects I think would be OK (see: Ring of Acid Blast, a unique ring) but not rechargeable, multi-use staves/wands.

I think Ardith's argument was about un/holy spells because they require the service to and favor of a god for their classes to use. So really we're only talking about spells from priests, paladins, hellions and possibly shamans since their powers, while not divine, are of a simillar nature.
The fact that you can brew spirit aura and have any jerk drink it means we have to wonder how far the spirits are willing to go on someone who isn't their conduit.

Spells from sorcerers, necromancers, warlocks should all be left alone since the creation and use of such magical devices is heavily focused on them.
At least that's what I think he's saying and I can't say I disagree.

Warlocks gain their power directly from Yed, so get rid of those wands as well.