Shattered Kingdoms

Right, there should be some limit to this ability.



This is just down-right silly.

Sure, barbarians possess some highly attuned senses (counterstrike, alertness and blind fighting), but this is all a rogue has ever trained for his entire life. I have given up the idea of at least being safe from counterstrike when in the third row, but at least let a rogue backstab a sleeping/blinded barbarian.

This would still make sense to some degree, they would have these three skills which grant them attuned senses, but they couldn't work with each other. If a barbarian doesn't want to be backstabbed in his sleep, he will need to actually utilize his alertness ability and wake up when someone comes in (which happens often enough).

If these changes became reality, perhaps a rogue would be able to kill a sleeping, afk barbarian...

I agree. That is too much. I mean, they do have alertness, which makes no sense to me anyways, but it is a skill. But if they are sleeping, they should not be able to stop a knife going into their back. They must be alert to be able to counterstrike, and I don't think that being asleep is the most alert...even with the skill.

P.S. And doesn't alertness just alert you when someone comes in the room?

Barbarians never sleep. They wait.

Alertness trains you how to sleep standing up with your eyes open. True story.

I would rather it being an opposed check, which the rogue gets bonuses from being hidden/silent/lvl vs counterstrike/alertness/lvl. If the rogue wins the contest, he gets to backstab without counterstrike. If it fails, the barbarian was able to sense the rogue and counterstrikes him.

Isn't that the way is now? But I think the roll for the barb is too low. I mean they don't always counterstrike...but for heavens sake, they are sleeping.

Taken from the Help file..

Automatic

Counterstrike is a measure of how alert a barbarian always is to any sort
of physical attack. When an opponent strikes the first blow, a barbarian is
nearly always able to turn most of the damage back onto the attacker, doing a
great deal of damage in some cases.


[Skills help] alertness

Automatic

Through alertness, a barbarian learns to be in-tune with his surroundings
at all times, such that he can sense when someone is passing near his
presence, even if they never make a sound. Although dulled somewhat, a
skilled barbarian can even sense people approach while he is sleeping.

This skill is the first step along a barbarian's path of supernatural
awareness that eventually leads to the ability to counterstrike.

Notice the highlighted portions. Barbs, even sleeping, can sense people coming and expect an attack, even if sleeping. As someone said above, barbs don't sleep, they wait, and that is too true.

However, if it was possible to code, I could understand someone having to master or get Alertness to superb before learning counterstrike AS WELL as making the Alertness check to know the person is even in the room with them to counterstrike an attack. As it is though, it's not that bad. Dual backstab can decimate just bout any class other than a barbarian, so just find out who's what. Make sure you don't stab the person again.

It says approach though. So by the time a rogue pulls the dagger quickly and stabs the barbarian in the back, the barbarian is supposed to have realized danger was right behind him, drawn his weapon, and countered the sneaky rogue?

Depends, any good Barbarian sleeps with his weapon unsheathed, besides axes and naginatas and other type weapons are a bit tough to sheath, wouldn't you agree? And if you approach em coming, you could roll over and slice at em with your weapon, which is what I imagine a counter strike is pretty much.

All depends really and all counterstrike really does is protect against Cleaves and Backstabs and first attacks. Unless it's a massive first attack, CS really doesn't do all that much damage as it generally either hits, scratches, or grazes.

I see what you're saying, yes, but I just can't see someone waking up when they know someone is killing them. I mean, they have alertness, so why don't they just wake up when they see the little message. I think that if they don't then they are susceptible to being cleaved/BS.