Shattered Kingdoms

Centaurs

Problem is that their low dexterity and bare forelegs make them vulnerable. Solution seems to be getting them out of the front row - or even the middle.

* All centaurs start with bow and fletch innate, as part of their natural woodcrafting.

* To give a boost to centaur scouts, their natural woodcrafting gives a bonus to herbalism. Their herbalism acts as a few levels higher, with a level 51 centaur-only herb or two. Fire protection comes to mind, to deal with that weakness.

Griffons

Problem is that their extra attribute points, while nice, often have no good place to go for non-hybrid classes. Their short lifespans mean that good non-griffon mentors can do almost as well (and mentoring is less useful for griffons). And while griffons should have weaknesses, they're arguably more fragile than balance requires, especially their only fighting class. Solution is to revise the way attribute points benefit them.

* Griffons get +1 maximum to their class's prime attribute. (This especially helps the physical classes that need a boost, while providing minimal help to warlocks/clerics.)

* Griffons get double the normal benefit from HP trains. (This might be too much; I'm not sure how much this amounts to for fighting classes. Maybe 150% normal?)

* Griffons get double benefit from move trains, as well as a bonus to their claws/hide.

* This can be explained ICly as follows: "Griffons learn to augment their natural abilties with a variety of magics. Their claws and hides are far tougher than one might expect. Direct training in pain endurance and flight stamina is especially profitable for them.

...No. Seriously. Especially to the herb thing. If anyone was to get a boost for being an "innate" scout, it should be an elf. Not a centaur. Centaurs are legendary archers, yes, but archer doesn't equal scout. Mercs are actually better bow users than scouts - all being a scout implies is wilderness survival.

I also say no on griffons getting a +1 to their prime stat. There's a reason such bonuses only goes to helves and humans.

DOUBLE the benefit from HP trains? That's beyond insane. No. Despite how worthless I think PE trains are, I'd still say no to that, too, just because it doesn't make sense.

I like the thought of centaurs getting innate bows; maybe it's because of the constellation, but they seem to go together in imagery like dwarves and axes. Fletch I'm not as certain about; a natural inclination for a weapon doesn't necessarily lend to being able to craft ammunition.

I love the herbalism boon with a spiffy herb or two. Centaurs are Nashira's favored, with a unique closeness to nature. Maybe plunk a rare fire-protective herb in deserts, areas of sparse vegetation where it takes a natural affinity to track the signs of life, adapted to defense against the harsh sun and scouring sands.

For griffons, I liked your previous idea better - about applying points to magical protective boons - than most of those you suggest here. An slight hp boost or the +1 max to the main attribute seem most likely to me of those listed.

I'd rather see griffons get some sort of more racially explained boons, however - make them faster, for one. Nayzor thought that his griff by that namesake dodged much more, and attacked faster too maybe? - than his later griffbarbs. Speeding them up a bit makes sense, as both raptors and big cats are agile as well as powerful.

For two, give them some sort of dive/pounce attack; something that could only be used to initiate combat, that would get all the talons and claws involved. Dive if airborne, and works as a land also. Pounce if on the ground. Both would need a good lag time to get clear of the prey.

A wing strike, for a landed griffon, would also make sense. The buffeting wings of a griffon stun his opponent very briefly, or hinder visibility.

Anyhow, my initial reactions. I like your reasoning, and that you point out problems logically and specifically, I'm just a bit shaky on the solutions.

I agree that both large races should be physically intimidating. Generally, they're weaker than their medium counterparts.

A

I would support race-specific attacks for centaurs and griffons. Perhaps boosting a centaur's kick ability, and giving flying, front-row griffons a powerful swoop attack would be the ticket.

I think griffons would be better served having a bonus on magical items they wear. When a griffon wears a enchanted item its enchantments are treated as if they are double what they actually are. + 2 bonus becomes +4 bonus on a griffon. This only apply to spell calculations so a stat enhancer does not change its usefulness. Even at double all the enchantments they would still fall short of a humanoid fully enchanted.

Knowing most people wouldnt like the above idea. Give griffons a heaving bulk attack, bash that can hit more than one person.

Giving a centaur bow with out fletch is like giving someone a sword with no blade. Centaurs are large and so the majority of arrows around the world sold would need to be resized. How ever I dont see this actually helping centaurs all that much. No one plays a centaur merc because of the aim low and half the high level weapons in the game do one and a half times damage to them. Centaurs bonuses large size, kick (useless at mid to high levels), endurance (which almost every centaur class gets anyway) and a few scripted items for centaurs just doesnt seem to make up for the massive negatives. Almost everyone knows to aim low vs a centaur. Experienced players wield anti centaur weapons because they are good against everything not just better against centaurs. Centaurs need their bonuses and negatives to balance and they dont. Simple way to fix this is take away half of their massive negatives. Make fire weapons only half as effective let them use a set of horse shoes to parry blows aimed at legs.

Not a bad idea. Also, I wouldn't mind taking away centaur's fire weakness.

Centaurs need a boost on their leg-armor issue. Period. The rest is plain... mumbling. This weakness is way too much if you add the SEVERE vulnerability to fire and weakness to energy attacks that they also suffer from and were not mentioned here.

I would suggest a boost to their dexterity. Everyone pictures them as archers and it is hard to explain why their dexterity is so low. (You might imagine yourself quite awkward if your upper half was stuck to a horse body, but they are born that way and neither humans nor horses are clumsy.)

Can someone explain why Centaurs are vulnerable to fire anyway? I just don't get why fire hurts them more than a feathered Griffon or the oh-so fire retardant skin of a human.