Shattered Kingdoms :: View topic - Principled alignment

[Alignment help] Principled

Principled characters value life and freedom above all else. They will strive
to protect all people, especially those who are not able to protect themselves.
When possible they will try to stop those who commit evil acts by capturing
and attempting to reform them. Principled characters try with all their might
to follow and uphold the laws of the land. Those laws were created to protect
those who need protection and were most likely placed there by others of the
same alignment. Principled characters try to avoid killing, but do not
necessarily shy away from lethal force in the face of unrepentent evil.

A principled character can greatly differ from a principled character.

You can have the aludran principled who would more eagerly give her life in an attempt to stop a fight instead of fighting one herself, and then you have the alshanite/dulrikite who believes that the best way towards a better pyrathia is to purge the impure, burn the heretic, pike the alien, crucify the blasphemer, and so on and so forth.

IMO alignments should be as flexible as the concept of the character. And, unless it becomes necessary for players to write a 'concept desc' readable by imms, much like a description, Alignment policing is a very very thin line to walk on if you want to be impartial and just. Beyond the obvious stuff, oif course. A lightie hacking up the corpses of his enemies and peeing through their empty eye sockets is fairly easy to call WRONG.

On the other hand, A scrupulous elf, who sees any other creature other than elves equal to animals, can be expected to have a short temper, resorting to killing or stunning even lighties of the 'lesser' races because they didn't follow some elven law, like old king camby's order to disarm while in sith (i think the sign is still outside the city.) It could also be expected of such a character to behave in a terribly complacent, terribly absolute manner, without breaking his alignment. He does what he understands as right, what he is taught, and he believes these values as true. Unless another elf he considers wiser than himself comes and convinces him to change his ways, he can continue this demeanor without breaking alignment.

My two cents.

Author:	Achernar [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:09 am ]
Post subject:	Principled alignment
What's everyone's feelings about this situation? Gray aura NPC. Principled character kills said NPC for an item. Kosher? I'm sure there's ways it can be justified in either way. Purification of the non-pure heart. I would think its bad RP for killing when it could have been avoided. A player and I discussed this scenario and I couldn't soundly punish the player, because of the reasoning. I still feel my opinion has merit though. What does everyone think? A

Author:	ObjectivistActivist [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:16 am ]
Post subject:
Personally, I don't think a principled character should be killing grey aura'd NPCs for gear, unless they have no way of knowing that the NPC is grey aura'd. Even then, once told that should put an end to killing of that NPC. Killing a grey aura NPC for gear is more of a scrupulous thing, imo. It also depends on which grey aura though. Anarchistic would be more acceptable than unprincipled, for example. It could be justified though if the grey aura'd NPC is associated ICly with some evil faction or group.

Author:	Grakus [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:17 am ]
Post subject:
Another thing to consider is are PCs and NPCs equal in this? They aren't according to the law code or cabal/tribunals. Should they be here? I know that sounds a bit harsh.

Author:	Lolth [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:17 am ]
Post subject:
Imo, it really depends on the character's concept as a whole. I can see a zealous Hammerite operating this way, under the banner of his/her own self-righteousness. Do the character's actions as a whole mirror such a behaviour, or was this a lame-sauce excuse to justify the death of a NPC for an item? If the character is one who foams at mouth (or has some other sort of background history to back this up), I see nothing wrong with it. If not, it does get shady.

Author:	Goldlantern [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:39 am ]
Post subject:
If the character can detect auras, there's no excuse at all. If he didn't know beforehand, or doesn't hold stock in such things as magical auras, or holds a particular viewpoint that good and evil are concepts dealing with actions more so than personalities, I'd say it's fine (as far as knowing whether he's a justifiable target) It's really context. I mean, foaming at the mouth lighties can justify killing other lighties for stuff. (remember Halcidan?) I don't think Greybies are too far a stretch.

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Author:	Muktar [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:52 am ]
Post subject:
The problem I have is that graybie, as been noted by D, is that they aren't evil. They are selfish. Their own entity. Can they do evil deeds? Yes, but they can also do good and selfish deeds.

Author:	Achernar [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:53 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: [Alignment help] Principled Principled characters value life and freedom above all else. They will strive to protect all people, especially those who are not able to protect themselves. When possible they will try to stop those who commit evil acts by capturing and attempting to reform them. Principled characters try with all their might to follow and uphold the laws of the land. Those laws were created to protect those who need protection and were most likely placed there by others of the same alignment. Principled characters try to avoid killing, but do not necessarily shy away from lethal force in the face of unrepentent evil. Killing is not valuing life above all else. Capturing and attempting to reform would not include high or low murder, which is against the law. Killing is the last resort for principled characters and reserved only for those who are of unrepentant evil, not just those who are apathetic to evil or good. Screw Halcidan or this or that past example. Does it make sense to have a principled help file, if nobody ever plays principled, as the help file describes it?

Author:	Erevan [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:08 am ]
Post subject:
A principled character can greatly differ from a principled character. You can have the aludran principled who would more eagerly give her life in an attempt to stop a fight instead of fighting one herself, and then you have the alshanite/dulrikite who believes that the best way towards a better pyrathia is to purge the impure, burn the heretic, pike the alien, crucify the blasphemer, and so on and so forth. IMO alignments should be as flexible as the concept of the character. And, unless it becomes necessary for players to write a 'concept desc' readable by imms, much like a description, Alignment policing is a very very thin line to walk on if you want to be impartial and just. Beyond the obvious stuff, oif course. A lightie hacking up the corpses of his enemies and peeing through their empty eye sockets is fairly easy to call WRONG. On the other hand, A scrupulous elf, who sees any other creature other than elves equal to animals, can be expected to have a short temper, resorting to killing or stunning even lighties of the 'lesser' races because they didn't follow some elven law, like old king camby's order to disarm while in sith (i think the sign is still outside the city.) It could also be expected of such a character to behave in a terribly complacent, terribly absolute manner, without breaking his alignment. He does what he understands as right, what he is taught, and he believes these values as true. Unless another elf he considers wiser than himself comes and convinces him to change his ways, he can continue this demeanor without breaking alignment. My two cents.

Author:	Erevan [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:19 am ]
Post subject:
Those helpfiles is the exact reason I prefer the classic d&d alignment chart to the alternity one. Lawful good, chaotic good, neutral good, is far more clear and understandable than Principled, and Scrupulous. Also I do not see why there is no chance for neutral or good characters to select a middle path. While darkies have 3 alignments to chose from, (Chaotic Evil, Neutral Evil, Lawful Evil), greybies and lighties have 2. (Chaotic Good, Lawful Good, True neutral, Chaotic Neutral.)

Author:	Muktar [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:37 am ]
Post subject:
Erevan wrote: A principled character can greatly differ from a principled character. You can have the aludran principled who would more eagerly give her life in an attempt to stop a fight instead of fighting one herself, and then you have the alshanite/dulrikite who believes that the best way towards a better pyrathia is to purge the impure, burn the heretic, pike the alien, crucify the blasphemer, and so on and so forth. Sorry, that isn't even good. That is actually evil. To purge the impure and burn the heretic is similar to the crusades and the spanish inquisition. Neither of them being good any way. Erevan wrote: IMO alignments should be as flexible as the concept of the character. And, unless it becomes necessary for players to write a 'concept desc' readable by imms, much like a description, Alignment policing is a very very thin line to walk on if you want to be impartial and just. Beyond the obvious stuff, oif course. A lightie hacking up the corpses of his enemies and peeing through their empty eye sockets is fairly easy to call WRONG. On the other hand, A scrupulous elf, who sees any other creature other than elves equal to animals, can be expected to have a short temper, resorting to killing or stunning even lighties of the 'lesser' races because they didn't follow some elven law, like old king camby's order to disarm while in sith (i think the sign is still outside the city.) It could also be expected of such a character to behave in a terribly complacent, terribly absolute manner, without breaking his alignment. He does what he understands as right, what he is taught, and he believes these values as true. Unless another elf he considers wiser than himself comes and convinces him to change his ways, he can continue this demeanor without breaking alignment. My two cents. As was previously discussed, a scrupulous char should never kill another lightie. For almost any reason. You aren't even following the guidelines of principled and scrupulous. You are making up your own now. Being good is not suppose to be easy. Being good is never easy. Everything you described here is born out of selfish motivations. Those are great for the selfish alignments.

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