Shattered Kingdoms

I'd rather be helpless, thanks.

Suit yourself. As Pratchett's character Lord Vetinari says, it's the idea of certain death, versus uncertain death.

I would rather be helpless. Can't help that you think life is so cheap in SK (which is another problem with to many SKers), but I think if I die, I need to do something different so that I won't die like that again. Of course, all of my chars have died a lot. But, I actually don't think, "hmmm . . . life is cheap, I don't mind dying today." If you think that helpless is worse than death then that is also a breaking of alignment. You don't even value your own life. Which is a lightie thing. Even more so for principled.

It's not that a person thinks life is worthless - to further clarify (because I find it hard a person couldn't understand this), one way you will die. The other way, it's very likely, but not CERTAIN you will die. There are some who get anxious in regards to the unknown, and shy away from it. The not knowing what will happen to a person because their fate is no longer in their hands, spawns the fear of a lack of control, which is ALSO prevalent in some. Therefore, some would rather choose to die, and know they will die, than to have to rely on some Samaritan who may or may not come, or may, or may not help them, to either put them out of their misery, or prevent them from dying. Geeze. It's not rocket science.

EDIT: To illustrate this idea. A desert scenario, bandits come upon a guy on a not-so-well traveled road. Bandits knock out said guy, take his money, weapons, clothes, and bury the guy up to his neck in the sand.
This is akin to being knocked unconscious in sk. (and without ME/PE)

Now, is this preferable to just having the bandits kill said guy? It is of course a difficult question, but to say it has to do with a regard of life, is just completely erroneous.

To want to rather die then have the hope to live is to want to commit suicide and is the chicken<insert profanity> way out of it.

Hope is overrated - and in the desert bandit case, hope would be cruel 95% of the time. It's a sentiment that detracts, and deludes from reality. I'd like to see hope save that buried guy from a parched throat, dehydration, starvation, or having his eyes pecked out by a buzzard, 95 percent of the time.

What is wrong with trusting your god to return you? Even characters who are not especially religious know that the gods bless their priests and grant prayers for new life.

In death, the good go to a pleasant afterlife, and many have visited and returned. Through death, one may find a greater connection to a deity or be judged by one.

This is not like our world. In SK there is verifiable, undeniable evidence available first-hand that would lead one to the conclusion that death is not the end and through it one may grow stronger.

Left helpless and at death's door, you are at the mercy mortals, for whatever perversions they wish to commit upon you or evil rituals they wish to use you in.

In contrast, in death, you are free and at the mercy of non but the gods. Why would anyone in their favor fear this?

This is why I don't believe it necessary for a principled character such as a paladin, the epitome of a god's warrior, to place such a high value on mortal life above that of the life of the soul.

Uhh . . .maybe because it has been stated many times that death is suppose to be the most traumatic thing to happen in SK? That is why you get spirit disorientation (it is also to stop twinking but there is an IC reason for it). To die your soul is literally forced out of the body. To come back to life is to force a soul into a corpse (don't play semantics of rez vs raise I am using the term very liberally). So, in SK death is the most supreme form of punishment. If it is, how can it be anymore cruel then to leave you after you have been beat senseless? That's right, it isn't because you are still breathing.

Hope is never overrated, without hope no one in the game would have a motive to do anything. Whether it is selfish, good, or evil. Everything people do is based off of the hope that they will succeed in their next action. If someone loses hope, they lose the will to live. Which means they should NOT be allowed to leave the River. For they don't want to live, which means they want to be dead. Not alive later, they want to be dead.

Death doesn't cause spirit disorientation, returning to life does. One can still be reincarnated without being disoriented.

I don't think it needs to be an OOC rule that souls feel physical pain upon death and that being granted new life is painful. This should be open to interpretation by players through their roleplay.

One may feel that death will end the suffering, or similarly that there are "fates worse than death" such as experienced by victims of the Adepts of the Blood Path who may have had an ability to keep their prisoners helpless indefinitely.

I would rather roleplay based on the realities of the game than by a set of imposed rules that conflict with the actual nature of how the game works. In SK, death is not so bad if you know a priest who will pray on your behalf for the ever-present power of the sympathetic deities, and torture is still worse than death.

While being tortured, one may lose the desire to live, however, realizing that there are powerful gods willing to grant them new life, it is not abandonment of all life, just the current one. A faithful warrior stumbling upon the desert guy may pray, "Goddess of Healing, I am no healer, but this man is suffering without hope for salvation. I now free him from his mortal shackles, but I pray that if you find him worthy, you will heal all that ails him and bless him with new life," and still be "valuing life" while simultaneously ending one.

You shouldn't argue with Muktar, Drifter. You'll soon find out that he is beyond [REDACTED].