Shattered Kingdoms

Again player / character respect are two different things, that are somewhat independent. You may be a PK heavy player playing a paladin who doesn't respect people who don't PK from a personal level, but because youre a paladin you in game respect the priest who only heals.

I agree with that XP and PK skill do not equate.

What does have some baring on PK though is:

*Understanding of Game mechanics* dun dun dun (those are sound effects).

That is harder to make an even playing field. Because that can be subdivided further:

Understanding of In Game Mechanics
Understanding of Behind the scenes mechanics.

Simple example:

Two players: Newbie A and Expert B

Both are making Sprite enchanters for example.

Newbie A doesn't know the max and/or starting stats of a sprite, nor does he know what answers to pick in character creation to give him ideal results.

Expert B Knows all of the above.

From the get-go Newbie A picks some options that produces less than ideal stat setup, Expert B on the other hand doesn't.

Lets take it a step further, both players realize that they ought to ensure that they have good Intelligence.

Newbie A doesn't know better and maxes his intelligence using all the trains he gets to do so.

Expert B both understands the maximum limits of what can be achieved through enchanting, and accounts for that bonus in his stat setup, therefore freeing up extra trains for other important stats. (Like Art)

Obviously the game should be a place where players have, as much as possible, equal opportunities to succeed.

So how do you achieve this end goal?

That's a tough question worthy of it's own thread, but that has more baring on strictly PK than RP rewards ever will. In my mind Exp rewards for RP are nonconsequential honestly, save that they hopefully would encourage characters to spend more time in RP as they are leveling (a worthy goal in it's own right)

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. It's impossible to both allow players freedom in choosing their character build, yet also make all of those choices have the same level of "success." People who have never played SK before should not expect to have a perfect character build without asking anyone else what to do. I don't consider that to be a bad thing. The only "bad thing" is if established players then shun said character solely on account of their chosen build (Which pretty much never happens that I recall).



SK is a game that combines mechanics and roleplay side-by-side, hence the tagline "Where roleplay and tactics collide." It should be innately understood from that that if you choose to play with a focus on only one of those things and not both, then you are not going to be respected by the entire playerbase. That said, if you are playing with others, and amongst your entire group you have a good blend of both PK and RP, that's fine too.

From my point of view, the problem that people often run into is that they focus on only mechanics or only RP and expect that they should be treated as though they are good at both. That is, however, a style of play that does not make SK fun for everyone. People who just PK without fitting RP may be enjoyed by other players who only enjoy PK, but not at all by players who enjoy just RP or enjoy a blend of both. In the same way, players who just RP and avoid PK like the plague can sometimes irk players who enjoy a combination of RP and PK, and are downright frustrating to people who only play the game for PK.

The difference here is that no one has ever been RPed to death or RPed into deletion (Except Tolene), so most of the genuine frustration comes from those who prefer solely RP getting killed by those who prefer PK.

So, what's the proper response, if any? I think it's largely the players' job.

If you are someone who prefers to focus on RP and does not enjoy the PK aspect of SK at all, then I would suggest to you that while you may never enjoy PK, you should be willing to concede that things which happen in PK are just as in-character as what comes from your RP. You don't have to engage in PK, but you be willing to have your RP changed by what happens in the PK arena.

If you are someone who prefers to PK and does not particularly enjoy RP without PK, then I would implore you to keep in mind that not every player falls within that same boat. There are many players who don't enjoy PK, and while you should not avoid PKing them for any reason just because the player doesn't enjoy it, you should make sure that all of your PKs come with RP both before and after, because nothing is more frustrating to a good roleplayer than a story which ends abruptly because some random person they'd never seen before murdered them in an inn and walked off with all their stuff. The onus, however, falls much more on you to provide RP for your PK, because roleplay is -required- in SK. There's no rule which says "You must have fitting PK with someone in order to RP," but there is a very important rule which says "You must have fitting RP to back up any PK you do." Just keep in mind that SK is not meant for 100% PK: If you don't feel like participating in the RP side of things, you may be better off playing a game like league of legends or something.


I feel like the IMMs certainly have a stake in this as well to punish players who exhibit both PK without fitting RP, and also to punish players who exhibit poor RP even if they never PK, but I feel like the biggest responsibility lies in the playerbase for this one.

I actually wasn't trying to do anything with the post but highlight an aspect of game design that had a larger impact on PK than exp rewards. You'll note, I advocated nothing, only brought up an area of discussion. So I don't really feel I'm trying to have any cake, in reference to your idiomatic proverb.

I think you misunderstood the point of the example, which was that the veteran has the benefit of knowledge of system mechanics that a new player never would and may never will. Thus having an edge from the beginning in building a more effecient PK character.

The other line you quoted:



Actually referrs to the universal availability (or lack of availability) of the knowledge of system mechanics, and therefore the ability for players to make informed choices. (Not their ability to MAKE choices)

Does that mean you shouldn't try or cannot succeed in PK? Absolutely not. Nor should it have any baring on a characters ability to RP. But then I don't think anyone would agree that a system should actively attempt to create inbalances in a characters ability to make informed choices. Like I said this is actually a fairly deep topic too, and really deserves it's own thread.

Except that in your example, a simple "help enchant" and "help stacking" would have easily enlightened the new sorcerer player to the fact that he would be able to easily enchant his own mods and thus wouldn't need to max any stats naturally if he didn't want to. The -only- sort of choices that have a permanent affect on a characters' viability are his race, class and att trains (And for a merc, his spec I suppose). The vast majority of PK success in SK doesn't come primarily from character build, but on knowing how to correctly play your class which is effectively independent of your build. I should know, as I played a gnome mercenary who was successful, and gnome is arguably the worse race for mercenary in the game.

Someone who is dedicated to gameplay from the get-go is going to ask questions on the forum anyway, and there are a great deal of veteran players who consistently jump at the chance to give their advice on character building.

Provided of course they KNOW the numbers available. Please don't think I'm complaining about my own situation. I ask questions where I feel necessary, and I research where I can. But it makes a difference to know that sprites have a 22 max int versus a 25 max int or that answering question X starts you off with a higher int. Using the above example.

Again this was only brought up for it's relative (comparable) impact on PK, that was it.

PS - Please don't think I'm irritated at you either, discussions via forums are often ripe with misunderstanding, and I'm sure that I'm at least partially at fault - for any miscommunication - for not conveying my own points as well as I'd like.

This, this, this. Gawd [REDACTED] dammit..

I function on logic, which is why I've always been scarred to death of PvP. Its why I always roleplayed the small, whimpy, happy-go-lucky, pals with everyone twink. If you're not neutral to all sides, your everyone's enemy. If you make friends with someone's enemy, you're that persons enemy. And if you have your own ideas? Well, your RP is crap if you can't defend yourself from that lvl 100 SSJ who just learned Spirit Bomb and decided to test it on the next person that looked at them cross eyed. Not just that, but everyone's attitude incharacter is the standard tough guy that will, in fact, cleave you in two should you give them the stank eye.

Damn it, I have been in a BOX because of you [REDACTED] bastards!

Ugh. However, I digress~♫

This is a discussion on how to incentivise RP within the game. Smoochy leaves petty quarrels aside.

SSJ 9001

P.S. I feel that your level/status/rank/whatever you want to call it is based on your experience in traveling the world and fighting. It's a sort of "life growth". Any mistake you make, any new place you discover, any new challenges in combat you face, all of these add to your life experiences, and as such, is what helps you becomes stronger. Strictly RPing with people is a part of life experience, but I don't feel there should be anyway whatsoever to GM with RP alone.

As a new player... I don't find it difficult to know that I CAN get the last few levels of an attribute magically... but I have NO idea how to go about seeing what level of an attribute I am so as to know how far away from the max I am still. Any suggestions or advice on this aspect?

Help (att) will give you the breakdown of stages. From there its a bit of trial and error with mods to find exactly where in each range you sit.

Furthermore, stats that show no change in attributes or score are even harder to make sure you're perfectly at max. With strength, when the amount of weight doesn't go up after adding one strength mod, you know you're one over. Dex is when the number of items you can carry. Con is when your health percentage doesn't drop because of the increase in total hp. Wis, Int, and Cha doesn't give an evident change other than "Wis: Sagacious".