Shattered Kingdoms

Penalties shouldn't be handed out on how high status the character is. It should depend on whether or not the offending player has been breaking rules.

Of course not but it is a good guideline. Nothing in life is black and white and if an IMM sees something that doesn't deserve punishment but needs to be addressed, they still would. I suggested it because it is what should be expected of chars of those lvls. Champions and Grand Masters have no excuse why they should breaking rp (I am not talking about small stuff but more serious breaks of rp which happens too frequently).

I'd recommend something more lasting than loss of experience. How about a permanent GM-level curse effect, like the spell? This has the advantage that its main penalty (stopping recall) is identical to blemishment. The curse could be automatically terminated by getting an RP-reward from an immortal.

I'd note this is still very mild compared to the penalties of Carrion Fields. But with a lighter punishment, there needn't be quite so many qualms about using it.



For deterrence value, maybe you should advertise a little. Not names, but posting that the immortals have given out X curses this month would help demonstrate enforcement exists.



I'm not claiming RP-enforcement is easy, only that it's needed. If you think a mistake is an honest one, or if you're really not sure it's a mistake, given the character's role, by all means be gentle. But the help files should not be stretched to breaking - as in the attempted justification of principled characters killing greys for gear.



The problem is that high priests aren't interested in OOC justice. They're interested in IC actions based on their IC perceptions. They make a poor solution to RP enforcement. Their real role is to handle behavior that is both deviant AND IC. I wouldn't suggest bringing a HP into the picture, but if he happens to find out, it's all IC on his part.

Curse should be a permanent cap to level, not a hit to exp that can be countered with an hour of plvling or questing. IE, GMCHARX eats a curse for alignment breach. It's a one level curse. GMCHARX can now only ever achieve level 49, until and unless such a time as the curse is lifted. That will make curse an actually useful penalty to apply instead of a minor hindrance to "the pk elite" that can easily be ignored.

On the other hand, perhaps there should be two penalize options for imms. Thus, punishment could follow something along this line of progression:

A hit to exp as a "slap on the wrist" penalty for a one-time or minor alignment breach, a permanent level cap penalty as outlined above for more consistent breaches/rule breaking, and deletion as the endgame solution for a completely unrepentant, unreformed player.

That's a cool idea, Forsooth and OA.

I do agree that it would help if we just knew the numbers of the punishments and not the who's.

I believe alignment breaking punishments should be as IC as the act that broke alignment.

If a priest of love murders someone in a fit of rage, you can't just delevel him and say its ok for example. His god should probably blemish him and give him a quest to atone. That in itself can be punishment enough.

This is of course an obvious case.
What I am saying is that alignment breaking punishment should be related to the character and the forces around him.

If an anarchist starts being principled for a while, there's really not much harm done, but after a while he would start contradicting himself, struggle against his own nature to uphold these new ideas that he now believes in, and this is a good way to explain cap in maximum level. Until he returns to his previous, natural self, he is simply unable to be all he can.

On the other hand, an elf acting in a selfish way, according to the helpfiles, would start 'becoming depressed and will eventually perish'. In these cases elves could be treated with a permanent reduce to all stats, like spirit disorientation, to represent their depression, and they would earn XP at half the normal rate.

There should not be a standardized penalty for alignment breech. It should be a case by case thing, something to actually give the player an RP opportunity and something to work towards, instead just thinking 'oh [REDACTED] I got cursed bah'. Less system, more RP

I'd thought this line would have made it clear that level-capped characters would be in a situation similar to a blemish, wherein atonement was possible in order to remove the level cap and allow them to advance by gaining exp again.

Nothing I suggested is "pure system," and every single use of penalize can be accompanied by RP. That, however, is up to the imm using the penalize command. Either they hit penalize; tell XYZ ooc: blah blah blah, or they hit manifest XYZ; sayto XYZ blah blah blah; penalize. Just because something has a mechanical side doesn't mean it lacks an RP side, but as is always the case, RP originates from those using the mechanics.

Well I never said you suggested it should be pure system either

I'm just making a point I thought you missed.

A skill/spell curse would work well too. X skill can no longer be mastered.

I remember back in the day people used to get skills and spells stripped from them for abuse pretty frequently.

imms also used to change their races and all kinds of things to mess with them.

Apparently they don't have this power anymore?