Shattered Kingdoms

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:45 am 
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if lighties can kill NPCs for EQ then remove request.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:57 am 
meztiso wrote:
if lighties can kill NPCs for EQ then remove request.


Grays and evil don't respond to request.

And, Achernar, isn't ayamao, by your own admission, a gray alliance? Not the lightie-loving tribunal it is (and always has been) cabal?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:04 am 
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I'm inclined to agree on Ayamao - not because of the law, but because I can't think of any law-protected NPCs there a principled character would normally kill. Ayamao is pretty much isolationist as well as lightie/gray.

Maybe someone dies in a war or somesuch, but that's not really what we're talking about here. And even then, a principled character should be avoiding collateral damage when possible.

A truly honorable motive is the real issue. It's wrong for principled characters to murder even diabolics just for their stuff. It's just hard to seperate that from characters killing diabolics for cause, and by the way, doing some scavenging while they're there.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:18 am 
I still fail to see everyone's obsession w/ loot. Murder is murder. Taking 'loot' from the corpse doesn't suddenly make the act any more or less just.

Here's the issue: there's no way for principled alignments to get eq off gray mobiles without killing/stunning them. So, they miss out on the equipment to do their duty.

I'd like to see the helpfile written "Principled characters have a general distrust and dislike for non-principled characters, but will always take the benefit of the doubt with scrupulous fellows, despite being a harsh judge of anyone who is less than scrupulous."


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:43 am 
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I'd like to see the helpfile written "Principled characters have a general distrust and dislike for non-principled characters, but will always take the benefit of the doubt with scrupulous fellows, despite being a harsh judge of anyone who is less than scrupulous."


No, no, no. A typical principled character is trying to do good to a wide variety of people. Forcing them to dislike and distrust grays is completely foreign to the whole concept.

Nor do scrupulous characters always get the benefit of the doubt. The tension between the two alignments is part of the fun.

And if this is meant so that principled characters can have scrupulous ones do their murdering for them, well, yuck.

There is some equipment that principled characters will only get as gifts of unknown origin or as spoils of war. This does not make their lives not worth living. I've even played principled characters who refused to wear any dark-aura items, and that's far more restrictive. If there's a problem with an item that a paladin simply MUST have, convince the builders to put it elsewhere.

If you don't like the principled alignment, you don't have to play it. Scrupulous characters are fun too. But it's different fun, and the two should remain seperate.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:51 am 
I think that's precisely what scrupulous alignment is for -- doing the dirty work the principles don't want to do themselves. Otherwise, why would they see the scrupulous alignment as good? They'd not if they didn't let them do the dirty work while they sat back and watched.

I firmly believe that the principled alignment should be more pious and restrictive when it comes to aiding those of less-than-pure hearts. I think that they should be the ones who are the harshest against evil and give the least quarter towards evil acts because of their principles. I just don't buy into this whole 'principles should be allowed to be walked all over' bit.

I mean, look at the paladin vows. What is evil? Not good. What's good? Not evil. There isn't even room for gray. Either you are good or you are not and if you are not, you are most certainly committing some type of evil you should be swayed from, whether by words or by blade.

The entire religion of Dulrik is built about never ever giving a helping hand to a graybie, muchless a darkie, due to their lack of discipline. I agree rampant, wanton murdering shouldn't be allowed but akin to a hellion, there only needs to be a honorable reason for it to occur.

While hellions see dominating and conquering as honorable, paladins see stopping potential evil acts from occurring and converting souls to the light as their acts of honor.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:22 am 
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SK Character: That'd be telling
Grakus wrote:
The entire religion of Dulrik is built about never ever giving a helping hand to a graybie, muchless a darkie, due to their lack of discipline. I agree rampant, wanton murdering shouldn't be allowed but akin to a hellion, there only needs to be a honorable reason for it to occur.



I take a difference stance on that Grakus. As a Truthie I would often help Grays and Dark auras that were in trouble. I looked upon it as showing them the light, offering them a kind hand and in return I asked that they think on the kindness I offered. Granted, it was mostly flung in my face later, but if only 1 person in his whole lifetime 'changed' their ways, then surely that is a success.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:39 am 
wortsenawl wrote:
Grakus wrote:
The entire religion of Dulrik is built about never ever giving a helping hand to a graybie, muchless a darkie, due to their lack of discipline. I agree rampant, wanton murdering shouldn't be allowed but akin to a hellion, there only needs to be a honorable reason for it to occur.



I take a difference stance on that Grakus. As a Truthie I would often help Grays and Dark auras that were in trouble. I looked upon it as showing them the light, offering them a kind hand and in return I asked that they think on the kindness I offered. Granted, it was mostly flung in my face later, but if only 1 person in his whole lifetime 'changed' their ways, then surely that is a success.


You can, sure, but that's not what the truth religion, historically, has practiced.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:29 am 
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SK Character: That'd be telling
Well, if we all acted according to history nothing would ever change and we might as well not bother playing open ended games like SK. That is what makes games like this so special, fluidity. I was very careful about not saying you are wrong, hence I chose the phrase "I took a different stance."


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:56 pm 
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If your character is of principled alignment, they will most likely valuelife, and freedom above all else. They will strive to protect all people, especially those who are not able to protect themselves. They even try to protect those who commit evil acts from themselves, attempting to convince the evil person to denounce their evil ways. Principled characters try with all their might to follow and uphold the laws of the land. Those laws were created for a purpose, to protect those who need protection. Those laws were most likely placed there by others of the same alignment. Principled characters try to avoid killing whenever possible, using it as a last resort, when all other courses of action have been exhausted.


I thought about bolding certain parts, but I believe that the entire thing is relevant. Principled should not be killing just because they are opposite alignment, just because they have been insulted once, just because of equipment or any other reason. It is a LAST resort. Mugging, though Dulrik said is a bit more ethical, should never occur, as it is against the law. In lands where there are no such laws, I believe that it is up to the ethics and morals of the principled character to decide whether or not killing and mugging would be acceptable It says they uphold the law of the land, so a land without laws, there really is nothing to stop them but their own moral "laws".

The way paladins are played by the faiths of Dulrik and Alshain, paladins should be forced into scrupulous alignment with more specific oaths taken at investment that fit in with the religion. According to the help file, they could not invade Krychire and kill everyone for their evil deeds. They would have to knock politely on the gate and lecture everyone until they die of boredom or they attack just to end their own lives and get away from the paladin.


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