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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:53 pm 
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I'm gonna put in my 2 cents and it'll probably be regarded as QQ, but whatever.

I personally agree with this and tried to advocate it for a while myself. Warlocks while a bit better now, are still the weaker classes as baldric said. Elementals are so easy to dispel that it's not even funny and any melee class will just chew through an elemental in no time flat. When you take in account that actually casting spells in this game is bad, it only goes to show just how reliant they are on wands / staves. The fact of the matter is, when sorcs are getting stronger spells from spam zapping wands, as necros are with scrolls, something's wrong.

Mostly I believe the warlock is only being held together by the bandaid that is wands / tribunals. It's as D said a while back, a class shouldn't have to join a tribunal to be complete. As it stands now, warlocks almost have to. The pet thing helped, don't get me wrong, but with the recent nerfs to pets, pets die insanely fast. However, I completely agree with this change. Any warlock or caster class that tries to cast spells in combat, aside from controlling effects such as sleep or so, typically will die. You -cannot- cast damage spells in combat, solo combat, because the NPCs themselves can't stand up to the damage output from well buffed melee classes. There are only a select few, like losquaty, bill, which are sorc NPCs and tribunal NPCs. Elementals are nowhere near beefy as these guys, even with the immunity to lower level weapons.

This is off topic, but people should want to cast spells themselves, rather than OP charged wands which give the same effect. Doesn't help that damn good enchants mitigate so much damage that casting spells is almost u seless at times.


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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Kin wrote:
You -cannot- cast damage spells in combat, solo combat, because the NPCs themselves can't stand up to the damage output from well buffed melee classes. There are only a select few, like losquaty, bill, which are sorc NPCs and tribunal NPCs. Elementals are nowhere near beefy as these guys, even with the immunity to lower level weapons.


You're doing it wrong then. An elemental has hit points equal to the total of the warlock's mana and hit point pool, which should easily be 1000+ unless you made the mistake of training art.

Outside of wands, art is pretty worthless for a warlock, since all of your spells are reflex saves and virtually nobody gears or enchants for reflex. If your elemental is weaker than a sorcerer charm, it is a player issue and not a code issue.

Exchange the ever useful detect poison spell for identify and change dispel magic to check against the warlock's willpower - better fixes than giving them call lightning. Giving warlocks call lightning would just be putting a bandaid on the dispel problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:57 pm 
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Why do warlocks need call lightning? They already have chain lightning. Warlocks also get cone of cold, and fireball. Nobody ever said you needed to stay in the room and fight a sorcerer or necromancer like a [REDACTED]. Warlock is one of the worst things I would want to run into as a necromancer in any case because they can completely dismantle an undead army rather quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:03 pm 
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I agree that the changes Finney proposes are better solutions to the warlock class than giving them call lightning.


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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:13 pm 
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ninja_ardith wrote:
Why do warlocks need call lightning? They already have chain lightning. Warlocks also get cone of cold, and fireball. Nobody ever said you needed to stay in the room and fight a sorcerer or necromancer like a [REDACTED]. Warlock is one of the worst things I would want to run into as a necromancer in any case because they can completely dismantle an undead army rather quickly.


^^This.

Plus, they have the best healing spell in the game in healing rays. Healing rays is a one round group heal that does 10-15% healing. It does not require a target, so it can't be stopped by blindness or dirt kicking. If you did nothing but spam healing rays during PK, you would contribute more than the average player and maybe change the tide of the battle.


Last edited by FinneyOwnzU on Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Baldric wrote:
I agree that the changes Finney proposes are better solutions to the warlock class than giving them call lightning.

Are you cheating on me?


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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Just because I let you give me head once does not mean we are in a relationship, you creep.


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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Baldric wrote:
Just because I let you give me head once does not mean we are in a relationship, you creep.

What is this I don't even! Why not?!?!?! :(


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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:31 pm 
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FinneyOwnzU wrote:
ninja_ardith wrote:
Why do warlocks need call lightning? They already have chain lightning. Warlocks also get cone of cold, and fireball. Nobody ever said you needed to stay in the room and fight a sorcerer or necromancer like a [REDACTED]. Warlock is one of the worst things I would want to run into as a necromancer in any case because they can completely dismantle an undead army rather quickly.


^^This.

Plus, they have the best healing spell in the game in healing rays. Healing rays is a one round group heal that does 10-15% healing. It does not require a target, so it can't be stopped by blindness or dirt kicking. If you did nothing but spam healing rays during PK, you would contribute more than the average player and maybe change the tide of the battle.


You exaggerate the healing of healing rays, but I still agree that it is the best healing spell in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Warlocks should get call lightning
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:03 pm 
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ninja_ardith wrote:
You exaggerate the healing of healing rays, but I still agree that it is the best healing spell in the game.


It's not exaggerated.

Code:
[Life: 80% Hikari: 75% Move:  97%]
Gorath utters the words, 'pzaruio grulg'.
You are bathed in healing rays!

[Life: 91% Hikari: 75% Move:  97%]


That's 11% to a GM shaman. It would definitely do more to an adventurer or mage class. It probably wouldn't do 10% to a fighter that trained hit points, but 10-15% is fairly accurate as an average for all classes.


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