Shattered Kingdoms

As much as I am guilty, QFT.

I don't care if it makes me a fan boy, a wimp, or something more vulgar, rules are here for a reason. I am all for the debate over something that is seen to be too powerful, but such specifics should be kept to PMs.

And I'm spent..

[/pious rant]

For those of you QQing about class race combos not following Fist RP being better at fighting as a Fist two things.
One dont [REDACTED] at the player [REDACTED] at the leaders for the most part they should be limiting people like this and have been doing a half decent job. I did notice a while ago they seemed to have a large number of players which you are QQing about but those peoples mind sets have since become closer to what the majority are happy with.
Two Fist skills have been altered significantly and in that alteration they have limited the factors that you are bitching and moaning about. Size for one has been reduced as a factor in Fist skills.
I think that is about all I can say with out over stepping the reaches of talk about cabal. Yes the Fist are powerful at fighting but can they get around the law ? Can they do anything but fight with their skills? Are the majority of their skills easy to stop ? If your just thinking in terms of power gaming look around at the other cabal skills and really think hard about what you are trading for when you build a char for the fists over another cabal.

Because no one -ever- does that. Nope. I didn't actually have a player PISSED OFF at me for making a post that people used the info from ICly.

Never . . .

Nope. I've seen a post from Dulrik saying the Fist is designed as a caster cabal. That makes a lot of sense, for casters deeply feel the disadvantages of Fist powers. Yet it also means the skills need to be impressive for casters to accept those disadvantages.

I think the problem is that the skills tend to stack more with physical attributes than mental. It may be realistic, but it's not in keeping with the concept. A giant merc in heavy armor should get far less extra power from Fist skills than a gnome priest in cloth.

Well said. Dulrik, can you weigh in here?

I think the problem is that people just dont know what was changed to the Fist skills. All they see is OMG Fist can kill people now. In reality it is still very much Fist V E is very good Fist V P better than it was, good against a foe who acts like a NPC, weak against a foe who doesnt. For all those who think Fist skills are super over powered try out some tactics against them. When someone outclasses you at something look at your other skills there is quite a list of them on most classes.

Fist are a tad bit powerful. You can use all the tactics you want, but the real deal, melee combat, belongs to a Fist. If you fight one, you better get the first hit, or hit them with assorted I WIN spells, or you'll die.

A newb fisty will annihilate anyone up to way above average players. If they are fighting against a warrior who knows what they are doing...the fight won't even be close. Giant merc with a highly enchanted weapon will do about 3-4 times more per hit than a giant using his fists.

On the other hand, a merc in the fist who always used a weapon until he were in group fights might have the edge on everybody else due to whirlwind - one of the sickest skills in the game.

Whatev. I love it when Dulrik introduces skills and spells that require you be in the front row to use - hillarious. It means that 99% of the time these people are always in the front, and that means they never have a set of equipment.

The complaining seems to stem only from characters who are not envisioned as your typical Fist member. It is indeed a cabal that is aimed at less martial characters. So if I were to create a new limitation that would make sense, it might be to make the fist skills suffer armor penalties similar to spells. Comments?

PS. I don't like that there is this much detail being discussed in a general forum, but you don't get always get two-sided feedback on a cabal forum, so please avoid unnecessary detail in this discussion.

Very good idea, it would be interesting to see whether a shaman would sacrifice his light armor in order to harvest the benefits of his unarmed cabal skills.