Shattered Kingdoms

Agreed.

Griefing IMO would be holding charm/sleep forever just to [REDACTED] with the other person.

o all remove all; o all drop all; junk all or throwing someone from the sky isn't. It sucks, sure, but no different than being killed any other way and getting delooted.

I am just not amused or encouraged by the way this one is being ignored.

I commented, if you want a definitive answer on feasibility I suggest you e-mail Dulrik.

I support Algorab's answer. When it comes to rules enforcement for things that are hard to undo, it's far better that it's handled with hard-coded rules than trying to answer complaints after the fact. That's not even counting the time required by Algorab to handle these sorts of requests, which would be a lot.

Can you explain why junk looting someone by scattering their belongings in open air is different than o all remove all; o all drop all; junk all?

Just don't see why this is a rules issue needing a hard-coded solution in the first place.

I doubt highly there are going to be a LOT of instances of people dropping PCs over open air. All this crap over Charm would have just been easily fixed by removing the ability for PCs to be charmed. You know, like how necros can only control undead, no pc involvment required.

There are such three ring circuses put into place to avoid a simple solution.

Or, people could suck it up and make sure they have enough willpower before they [REDACTED] off a sorcerer? Or they could stop engaging in behaviors that make other folks want to kill them?

I mean, "let's make sorcs more like the garbage class no one wants to play!" doesn't really appeal just because some folks don't want to lose their loot.

Air-dropping people wasn't even a common occurence when this change was implemented.

If you get charmed, you're basically guaranteed dead+looted, anyways.

Like...the later change to where charmed people WoR with you causes 100x more griefing than the potential to get dropped over an air room ever did, tbh. Get in a group fight, spam charm, land charm, quaff WoR, you win. If you're in a Tribunal, go [REDACTED] yourself. An enemy sorceror can do drive-by charm attempts for eternity, since attacking Tribunal members isn't even a crime. That was another change that has caused infinitely more griefing than air-dropping ever did.

I'm not positive on the time-line, but I believe the prevalence of air-dropping was before charm restricted the PC charmed as much as it does now. In ye olden times, people could combat charm with all manner of ridiculous ploys like sitting down so you can't be moved, positioning behind the caster and attacking NPCs, sending messages to allies to get them to assist you, et cetera.

My fuzzy recollection was almost total restriction of the person being charmed was meant to stop that poor RP and weird behavior, but on the flip side it turned it into an absolute land it and win spell.

From a game play standpoint? I think it would be much easier just to limit charm to NPC humanoids. Petrification already brings a similar type of "I Win" or nothing functionality to the class as well. From an RP standpoint, there isn't supposed to be much of a differentiation between player characters and non-player characters, and lots of changes have been more about bringing your average NPC in-line with your average PC, like not casting a ridiculous number of NPC only spells and things like that. Of course, there are tons of scripted NPCs, just like there are a ton of scripted items, but in a general sense I feel like everyday NPCs "cheat" a decent amount less than they used to.

TLDR: The reason it was different than o all remove all, o all drop all, junk all is that at one point in time, people could just wear all their gear before it even got to dropping everything. Obviously, it's not like that anymore so the landscape has shifted in ways since some of these things went into place.

That's kind of how I see it. I'm hearing the same people complain about reflex/bash at the same time as this about willpower/charm. If you stack yourself with reflex to be nigh-invulnerable to the reflex-save attacks, then it seems obvious to me that you should be particularly vulnerable to the willpower & fortitude attacks. Seems like I'm hearing requests that would allow players to make their characters virtually invulnerable to all attacks at the same time they want other players to be more vulnerable to their own attacks? I strongly believe there should be gives & takes. The willpower/fortitude attacks tend to be more "I-win" spells, while reflex tends to be have far wider usage. That guy who stacks his reflex to be dodging trips, bashes, and lightning bolts like mad really should be fodder for petrification, FoD, or charm. Everybody wants their character to be able to survive (and win) practically every situation, but that's not really feasible in a world with PvP, and the changes we want to make our Character A more powerful is likely to have ripple effects on Characters B-F too. It's a delicate spiderweb.....

I don't have a horse in this race, it's just interesting how the arguments raised in certain forum threads seem to relate back to other, potentially opposing arguments raised in other forum threads?