Taking a look at the elephant in the room.

Travorn · **Joined:** Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:29 am **Posts:** 753

Except when you are a master and told time and again "You are too young" "You should go train" "You are not experienced enough, you'll die". While the mechanics say that your actual skills are done, the playerbase says you still suck until you are at least mid-way through champion.

Marina · **Posted:** Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:56 pm

After a long hiatus from SK (Few years or so?), coming back to create a character was quite the change. It's almost to a point where I would otherwise be dissuaded from playing SK, altogether, but since I've played in the past, I know that once I GM, it will get a lot better. I mean, let's be honest here.. As far as RP is concerned, when you're a low level character, the majority of the playerbase looks over you. I don't blame them, but it makes for a very dull experience. I can understand why people wouldn't want to stick with SK, because the initial value of gameplay is very low.

There are a few things you can do to keep with the 'just arrived,' experience bonus, but even at starting value, it still feels as though you're gaining at a slower rate than ever before. We're sitting there, staring at the screen with the monotonous task of typing, "kill &*," how does this get people to want to play?

I mean, before you hit at least Master, the majority of the game is mostly shut off to you. All of the fun bits, like exploration! It shouldn't take 100+ hours of continuous leveling to get to having fun on a game.

Just my own personal opinion.

Sklz711 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:06 am **Posts:** 719

It's my thread, so I'll go ahead and drop my two cents into it.

The big reason always thrown about when leveling ease was discussed was "investment in the character". Which in more basic terms means, the longer/harder it is to level a character the more likely you are to stick with said character as it then becomes a harder value judgement. It doesn't matter how green the grass on the other side is, if you have to walk through broken glass barefoot to get there.

My counter-point to this statement that has been made before is this. Once someone finds a character they love playing, there is very little character hopping done anyway, so all ease of leveling does is help people find their niche sooner, and get into the RP/PK groove that always was, and should be SK.

Most people don't keep a character just because it took 800 hours to GM, they keep a character because they enjoy it. If the first thing I think before I roll a character on this game is, "Son of a [REDACTED], I hate leveling so much," then something is wrong. I should be thinking about the fun I'll have on the way, and the lots more I'll have once I get there.

Muktar · **Posted:** Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:01 am

One of the things that could be done to make Master more complete is making the levels past Master less relevant.

First, make armor and weapons thief free for Master +.

Second, lower the amount of HP, MP, and MV you receive past Master so that reaching GM wouldn't be that much different. Just a slight boost comparatively.

Third, make leveling past Master extremely slow.

Dark-Avenger · **Posted:** Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:01 am

Sklz711 wrote:

Most people don't keep a character just because it took 800 hours to GM, they keep a character because they enjoy it. If the first thing I think before I roll a character on this game is, "Son of a [REDACTED], I hate leveling so much," then something is wrong. I should be thinking about the fun I'll have on the way, and the lots more I'll have once I get there.

Then roll concepts that you'll enjoy playing, or hope you do. And you can know if a concept is enjoyable to play or not within 50 hours anyway, no matter if you GM or not so you can move on anyway.

Now if you all people want to have GMs to know if you enjoy the RP concepts of your characters, then something is very wrong with your views about RP.

ilkaisha · **Posted:** Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:04 am

I GM'd at 342 hours.

I had help EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE WAY, because with the changes to AoE and charms, it is nigh-on impossible to for a sorc to do on her own in any reasonable amount of time.

You all know what sort of time I invest in RP, but even with that said, it still took WELL over 60 hours of grindage (even with my "leet hookups") to hit GM. We're talking closer to 200.

Golden age what now?

Kin · **Joined:** Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:42 pm **Posts:** 944

Muktar wrote:

One of the things that could be done to make Master more complete is making the levels past Master less relevant.

First, make armor and weapons thief free for Master +.

Second, lower the amount of HP, MP, and MV you receive past Master so that reaching GM wouldn't be that much different. Just a slight boost comparatively.

Third, make leveling past Master extremely slow.

I COMPLETELY agree with all of this.

Basically, levelling to journeyman or veteran level should be a breeze. I'd say...10-20 hours TOPS. You shouldn't have any risk of death. The reason i say this, is because half way through you get a feel for the class that you play. It doesn't matter if you like the RP concept if you don't like the class.

For example, I had a really interesting concept for a Priest. However, I rolled one..And never made it past novice. I hated the priest class. Couldn't play and probably won't try it again anytime soon. I just didn't like it. I loved the RP concept an the RP he had, but simply hated the levelling aspect of it.

Terrus · **Posted:** Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:06 am

Muktar wrote:

One of the things that could be done to make Master more complete is making the levels past Master less relevant.

First, make armor and weapons thief free for Master +.

Second, lower the amount of HP, MP, and MV you receive past Master so that reaching GM wouldn't be that much different. Just a slight boost comparatively.

Third, make leveling past Master extremely slow.

Levelling past master IS extremely slow.

ilkaisha · **Posted:** Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:08 am

Quote:

Levelling past master IS extremely slow.

QF(MF)T.

Sklz711 · **Joined:** Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:06 am **Posts:** 719

Dark-Avenger wrote:

Do you remember back in the day when there were only 3 quests basically? One in Vaerlain, one in Necropolis, on in that tower. And people used them to get the whole last level?

Why were they wimped? Was it because they were scaled with level? No, because 234524312 more quests were added. And as 32414214515 more quests are added everyday in SK now(I know every new area must have quests in it), it only makes sense if they are wimped a bit in the XP they offer.

And since you got the golden age syndrome, do you remember back then when it took you as the average player at least 200 hours to GM and none bitched about it also? Actually, in 200 hours people were happy. After 500 hours it started to be considered slow.

Now, because a few years ago people presented us the Chancel and the CoH(it all pretty much started from there) and generally a LOT of sick levelling areas were implemented and people managed to hit GM in less than 20 hours, now people say that 100 hours to hit GM is too much.

So decide what you want. Do you want the golden age syndrome or not?

Anyway, imo levelling is fine now. Perhaps a bit too fast also if you want people to consider their characters complete at master and not GM. At least I considered my chars complete at master back then, I was getting out PKing and RPing and all from there pretty much and if I had a chance to level up a little more I wasn't saying no, but generally levelling wasn't my priority. Now you are able to hit GM within 50-60 hours(no twinking/hookups and considering my outdated knowledge of SK in the last year), so yes, SK levelling is fine and nothing to [REDACTED] about.

Your entire idea that I have golden age syndrome is wrong sadly, my first two characters never GM'ed, infact it's well known that I never went out of my way to go past Master on any character because I enjoyed the RP/PK side of things alot more than I did leveling. When you aren't a lootwhore you have the freedom to do these things. I age-deathed a sprite without ever even hitting GM, so take your golden-age syndrome leveling speed thought and shove it up your [REDACTED]. Thanks.

As for the rest of your post, it's complete and utter [REDACTED]. Simple as that. People I talk to on a daily basis who have rolled characters with OOC friends so they have immediate allies are taking around 200 hours. Even cake classes with prior OOC knowledge and using "twinkish methods" are coming in around 120 hours. You're full of [REDACTED] DA, and I'll leave it at that. Some may be pulling of 60-80, but it's a slim damned minority if it exists at all.

Shattered Kingdoms

Taking a look at the elephant in the room.

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