Shattered Kingdoms

Cleave can win a duel sometimes, If you could be able to cleave multiple times then other openers should be used multiple times such as charge.


Call armor is a good spell but it doesn't help when you are killed by a group and looted as soon as you hit the floor you would have to reincarnate and instantly call armor.

And as Sinnoch/Grakus has said in the past in these forums Sof and Bog are easily shaken off if you have the enchants in the right places. But I guess we are all being bias I never played a hellion and I can sure as hell bet most of you haven't played pallys.

Flamestrike would probably never see use from a hellion, because hellfire is simply superior. A definite no, because it waters down the class, as well as the spell. I liked Szaldora's comment, too. The classes just aren't supposed to mirror each other.

With the Cleave timer, Eusd, there's no way a Hellion can cleave multiple times. That's not what I'm asking at all as that would make a Hellion crazy powerful.

What I'm asking is that cleave can be used anytime in the battle, not just as an initial strike. The timer on Cleave is close to a good 3 minutes or more I believe, unless it's changed.

No the timer after much trial and error on my part is one minute. And its not really a minute. Its a your out of combat when the next hour comes kinda thing. Which is why you can get two back to back cleaves, or sometimes have to wait.

Flamestrike is completely pointless on a hellion so that's just a bad idea.

Cleave is reset on the tick, it isn't on a timer at all. You just can't be in combat when the tick hits.

You can't EVEN begin to compare dominate to bog. That is so apples and oranges. I read "dominate keeps people in place just like bog" and I said to myself, here's someone who is absolutely clueless about hellions. I shall disregard anything futher they have to say on this.

And yeah, hellions are pretty darned good as are paladins. Paladins DO have an advantage though over hellions. I've played a successful paladin and a successful hellion and in a duel paladins are better.

If hellions need anything, it's a way to heal themselves. I don't like the idea of giving them a heal spell though. I'd much prefer something like my vampric drain idea stated in the pt2 of this series. Something that makes them have to weaken someone else for them to get power.

People try to compare bog to hellfire but its really no comparison either. They do roughly the same damage and have the same casting time. Bog does force people to not flee combat but its only usable on a handful of poeple even for damage. Hellfire can hit anyone anytime, that's it's trade off for not making people flee or stay and techiniqually a hellion can make people stay with a bashing dominate.

I will be the first to say that dominate isn't all that great. I almost never used it. It's almost always going to be more of a risk to use it than not.

Techinically a paladin can make people stay with a bashing atyrros, and a hellion with a bashing nightmare. Only difference is, a paladin doesn't need to worry about order lag, or someone managing to break dominate, or any of that because they just BoG and smash the darkie's face in.

Seems I wasn't very clear on the way I stated that as multiple people misunderstood. I was referring to the fact that a hellion can have their dominate bash people to keep them in place.

My whole point, however, was that these are two very different classes that aren't meant to be "tit for tat." They are balanced with eachother overall, IMO.

Let me take a moment to laugh, then I'll finish my post.

If paladins and hellions were balanced with each other, each would have an equal chance of winning a duel. This obviously isn't the case. Paladins, unless played by someone completely inexperienced and unprepared, will win almost every time. Unless a hellion gets a lucky cleave in to open, they're cooked. Not only can the paladin negate a large portion of the damage the hellion can dish with healing spells, they can reduce massive amounts of damage via sanc, armor, and shield, whereas the hellion has, what?, one of those spells to call on, and it does nothing for melee damage.

Paladins don't get shield, and you missed "protection", which does affect melee damage, and both classes get it.

I will suggest that the concentration for dominate be lowered, though. That'd make it a lot more useful.

even if you remove all spell damage and chalk it up to they're both enchanted out the wazoo.


paladins still get disarm over hellions.

paladins still get to heal themselves.

Hellions get cleave which has a very low chance of insta win and the damage will be reduced down to about 30% tops.

So even if the paladin starts out at 70% of the hps of the hellion the paladin still gets to disarm and heal and they can frenzy themselves for added melee damage.