Shattered Kingdoms

I consider the Fist mediators. Those who would stand for honor above conflict. Logic above emotion. While they are principled, I think they would aid anyone who was treated unjustly. As opposed to the Hammer, who would strike down any evil. Fist would talk them to death. And, when left with no other option, resort to violence only in self defense. Not a grand goal for a faction in a game based on conflict, but a role that makes sense.

A

So, what you're essentially saying is..another Hammer, because in the end, what are they going to do? Relic raid.

I don't see any 'talking' being done by the fist, ever, but I always see them out there spam typing ama and bak!

"But Grakus, LOL, we talk and the evil just doesn't listen LOL so we gotta use our FISTS LOL!"

Yeah, that's good and all, but on this mud, evil needs to do evil things relatively uninhibited. The more you stop evil from being aggressive, dominating, and able to stir the pot the more boring you make the game. Just look at city raiding anymore.

Perhaps we should re-evaluate the cabal's orientation and drop them from a light aura cabal to a light-gray? Removing them as a promised ally to the already imbalanced typical setup would go a long way to making playing a darkie not suck.

Either that, or merge Hammer and Keeper, and disband the Talon. I'm for either.

You misunderstand. Fist should only be violent in self defense. Hammer's mandate is to seek and destroy evil. Fist has no concept of good or evil, really. Its more about, enlightenment through controlled thought. Perfect action and thought in unison. Not raiding for relics. Maybe helping another group regain their relic. Getting their own relic back certainly. Taking both relics from two constantly battling factions to officiate the peace? Perhaps.

They don't necessarily hunt anyone. Or even oppose any specific faction. They should be the ones trying to end conflicts. Violence is their enemy, not any one faction. Fist ultimate goal = worldwide truce. Therein lies their impossible challenge. Hammer will never destroy evil. Adepts will never destroy the world. Empire will never rule all of Pyrathia. Harlequins will not bring the fall of all governments. Druids wont bring light and dark into alignment. Fist will never bring about world peace.

A

PS Because others take different directions with their cabal, doesn't mean that's necessarily the only interpretation of it. This statement is my ideal goal for the Fist, not necessarily supposed to reflect the current Fist.

That's an awesome thought, problem is:

You're wrong, Achernar. The FIST can NOT obtain this goal if they are unable to kill other lighties to stop conflicts. They have -never- raided the Hammer keep in known history.

I will blatantly say this is a BSing you're giving us knowing how game mechanics work and I want to know why we have 2 hammeresque cabals, because like it or not, fist will always go against evil and neutrals on the mud, never lighties to 'obtain peace.'

So, therein lies the fault of your supposed 'goals'. We have 2 anti-darkie cabals and only 1 dark cabal. I seriously think it's in everyone's best interest the fist cabal be made a gray one.

QFT. Grakus might not be the best at nicly slidding his point across a table but I have to agree with him here. Although now Im going to take it to a bigger scale. The game as is a giant 2 vs. 6 with Harlequins being truly out of the mix helping whomever and being truly neutral. I give you 2 vs. 6 because any player can see that right now it is the MC and CoN against the game. Any government joins against them default almost. So that takes up three, and then you have Hammer who are defaulted against both, Druid whom are default against CoN, and to keep alliance or truce will most surly go against MC. Talons are probably the only ones who do not default but in todays game they are at war. As for a non fighting Fist I do not believe that. The Fist hops in with their home country and also join the Hammer. Though they rarely move as a group that I've seen, they are constantly in twos and threes mixed in with hammer and Talon. I'm not going to cry unfair, but look at the numbers. This is why I stay out of the cabals/tribunals right now. I know when the new cabal is done there will be droves of lighties suddenly getting oathbreaker or delete delete. And the game will swing back dark and then lighties will cry, dark will be weakened and there will be less a reason to be evil.

As for the topic of giving the MC leadership as their default skill, yes do it. However, I also think they should have shield wall. My reasoning is because they are the only group that is both a cabal and a tribunal. And why should they not get both a cabal skill and a tribunal skill?

I believe you'd like to push the Fist a little in this direction, but it's not going to happen. If nothing else, the Fist is a lightie-only cabal; of course it has a concept of good and evil.

You also can't create a peace-oriented cabal, and then make it participate in the relic wars. All the incentives are wrong. (I've played a Fistie who was meant to be a teacher; I quickly deleted him in favor of a tribunal character who actually had time to teach, instead of having to fight so often.)

I would love to see the cabals held to their central alignment, which for the Fists is principled. Things should subtly but surely go wrong for any player group that abandons its base principles. And for the cabals that affects the most, maybe they require the occasional helping hand. (Re: Adepts)

Just a quick question, or two.

Why doesn't the past few pages have its own thread? How does it have anything to do with the MC's cabunal powers?

When I ran the fists I had A's concept in the back of my mind. Yes it was still a "lightie" cabal because simply put their goals are non selfish. Look at the alignment system selfish people arnt going to stick their head out against allies and have strong disagreements because their side is winning wrongly. It is unlikely the Fist will raid the Hammer logic dictates if the Hammer are able to actually win then the Fist goal will be easier to reach. If the Empire or the adepts win their goals are screwed.
When I look back on my leadership I should have been a lot stronger with Tarnish with some people. How ever I did stick to the idea that the Hammer is not the Fists friend by fighting evil unless it is running with the Fists goals at the time mostly against the Harlequins at the time as I recall. Also remember when the fist lose their relic they suck and are better off not using their cabal skill at all.
Back to the topic with that revelation MC losing leadership is fine suck it up and use your cabal skill to get your relic back.

After watching a leader of the Fists in action, I have to agree with A.

They are mediators. "Look, here's a man harassing others. I will try to have a logical discussion with him."

-logical disucssion passes-

"Clearly you have no mind sir because I cannot reach it."

-man harasses woman. man touches a woman who tells him not to. man proceeds to continue touching woman. woman kills man. man comes back. man touches woman again repeatedly. woman stuns man.-

Fist: You cannot use violence against people! He touches you to get a reaction. If you ignore him he will stop.

Woman: He hasn't stopped. You get him to stop.

Fist: I cannot make him stop. His mind is clearly out of reach.

Man proceeds to poke/touch woman 33 more times before someone else proceeds to attack man.

Fist and woman argue.

In comes a high knight of another faith, looks at Fist: She'll be punished no matter what for what she has said to you.

While in front of high knight of another faith and Fist, comes the man and pokes the women in the ribs another 15 times.

Yeah....the Fist are mediators! Great ones! The Fist are great at working with people HONORABLY!

I understand what purpose Dulrik wanted for the Fist, but I don't think that was it. That Fist, being the HIGH KNIGHT OF HONOR, should have done more to interceed on the woman's part. Sitting there and getting pissed at her for trying to make someone stop touching her was really annoying.

The High Knight of RIGHTEOUSNESS, did nothing but say the girl would be punished for basically calling the High Knight of HONOR on his lack of action and completely lack of honor.

Where's the Fist of old like Luce who would have actually done something? Where's the Fist who would have actually mediated the situation?

Oh and before you ask, yes, there was a log, yes, it was sent in. The ruling was the two high knights acted completely within their alignment by seeking to punish the girl for using any means at her disposal to make a man stop unwanted touching.

So, the Fist, are not currently acting as we think they should. They are sitting around hosting tea parties and discussing how the world should be without actually making it that way.

FYI, I miss the Yaubl that actually had a damn set of balls and would do stuff.

There are times when the fist does oppose the hammer. A while back, when I played a Fist and Mystra led it, there were a bunch of lighties in the Keeper and Hammer that were extremely ruthless and the fist for a time was at war with them. They first tride to reason with them, but there was a short time when the hammer & fist were opposed. Point being, the fist isn't automatically tied to the hammer. If they believe the Light organizations are using corrupt means to rid the world of evil, they should not be joined with them.